Your dog is a greenhouse gas polluter

Yes true. When the electricity gets converted in his house, however
many kW-hrs. of electricity is converted ultimately turns into heatr
released into the environment.

You also need to take a course in thermodynamics.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

When it is used in the home (or anywhere else), 100% of it is converted
to heat that is released into the envirnoment.

You need to go back to school. You should be motivated in learning
what's really behind the true science.

It's going to cancel out all the "damage to the environment" done by his
usage in the past, as in 2006? You really can't be serious. Please
document all this building of these new sources going on.

And the average American is already using 1/20 of what he's using. Why
doesn't he just quit wasting the energy. Makes him look like a
hypocrite. He could use the same money now to build the new stuff
without doing damage now. Who is forcing him to use this much
electricity while it is doing so much damage?

Again - I would really like to see some credible documentation of the
building programs going on for that.

....to what - only 5 times what I currently use?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

What are your qualifications for the opposite?

What I do see is that those who claim to have a case for it do not
understand the science that they claim is behind it. You as well as
others have demnostrated it once again in this thread.

I also see - as the Washington State Climatoligist demonstrated when he
stripped a colleague of the title of Associate State Climatologist for
going public with uncovering dishonest research that had been done to
prove global warming - great dishonesty among those who do (giving them
the benefit of the doubt) understand the true science, but can't give up
their positions and incomes derived from promoting the false science.

You and others could justify in your minds Al Gore doing anything to
damage the environment - say - owning and paying people to drive 10
Hum-Vees constantly (I made that example up - but if you can make
excuses to allow him to burn up 20 times more commercially-produced
electrical energy as the average American, then you would excuse him for
anything) because he is paying into some bogus fund that sometime in the
future will negate all the damage he has personally done to the environment.

Sorry - I believe in pay-as-you-go. Not some pie-in the sky crap that
is pure politics like that.

Indulgences are dishonest - and that's what it amounts to.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Hi Bill,

So you're saying that if I were to install a couple solar panels on my
roof and convert sunlight into electricity, I would be contributing to
global warming (i.e., producing electricity that ultimately turns into
heat) and that if I were to add twenty times as many panels the damage
would be twenty times as great? That, in effect, I produce more heat
by first converting solar energy into electricity, then using it to
power my household appliances. Likewise, that turning wind energy
into electricity makes our atmosphere hotter than it would be
otherwise. Do I understand you correctly?

Sure, but before I crack open those textbooks, I'd like to ask if
anyone else would care to offer their opinion. A quick show of hands.
How many believe wind and solar power sends our planet into toaster
oven mode?

The renewable energy Mr. Gore purchases through the TVA does not
produce GHG emissions. And for the sake of accuracy, the Gores used
190,623 kWh in the 2006 calendar year, not 220,000 kWh as you had
previously indicated (12/05/05 through 12/06/06).

Source: http://www.news2wkrn.com/goreelectricbill.pdf

To learn more about the TVA's Green Power Switch programme see:

http://www.tva.gov/greenpowerswitch/

I would consider Mr. Gore a hypocrite if he told me to do one thing
and he, himself, did the exact opposite. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
I don't recall Mr. Gore asking me to use less electricity. He has
recommended I reduce my carbon emissions (i.e., emissions that occur
as the result of burning of fossil fuels) and, like him, I've done
that through the purchase of green power (100% of my electricity is
wind generated).

Beyond certain limitations imposed by the size and design of the home,
as well as those of local climate and the functional needs of the
family, it would depend on how far Mr. Gore wishes to pursue the
matter and the creative talents of the people involved. I live in an
older 2,500 sq. ft. Cape Cod and the previous owners (family of four)
used 5,700 litres of heating oil in the year prior to my purchase. In
that year, they also consumed a little over 14,000 kWh of electricity.
Last year, my oil consumption (family of two) came in at 828 litres
and we used 11,300 kWh of electricity, which includes the subsequent
addition of an air source heat pump.

I could provide you with a laundry list of the things I've done to
improve this home's energy efficiency and a second list of all the
things I have yet to implement. By the time I'm done, my intention is
to cut my energy use by another twenty-five per cent (e.g., a heat
pump water heater would reduce my fuel oil consumption by 500 or more
litres/year and, at the same time, minimize the need to run my
dehumidifier during the summer months). In its inherited condition
and after adjusting for square footage, I'm sure my home was not much
different than that of the Gore's and I don't imagine I entertain as
many guests as they do, nor do I have a couple secret service agents
showering in the next bedroom each morning.

Cheers,
Paul

 

The details are available on the website I noted in my previous post,
but I can tell you some of this power is purchased from residential
customers who have installed wind and solar generation at their homes.

As I said before, I really don't care if Mr. Gore uses twenty, fifty
or one hundred times more electricity than the average customer. Mr.
Gore is asking us to reduce our GHG emissions and his purchase of
green power and various other carbon offsets is consistent with that
message. Call it indulgences or whatever you like. Trust me, I'm not
going to lose any sleep over it.

As I've tried to explain to you, multiple times now, Mr. Gore's
purchase of green power will cover off his immediate needs during the
renovation phase and until such time as he can begin producing his own
solar power, and the facilities that he will have helped put in place
through said purchases will continue to generate clean electricity
long after he no longer requires this power for himself.

And you should be happy to know 100 per cent of the proceeds of Mr.
Gore's movie "An Inconvenient Truth" and its companion book have been
donated to "The Alliance for Climate Protection", an organization
dedicated to help fight climate change, for which he is cofounder and
chairman. To date, his personal contributions to this organization
are reported to be in excess of $750,000.00.

For more information on this group, see:

http://www.allianceforclimateprotection.org/

Well, what can I say? I tried.

Cheers,
Paul

 

I woke up here in the middle of the night and heard on the nightowl news
that the
Supreme Court has now gotten involved.

Havent read the full text, but apparently the SC has ruled that renewable
fuels will be
given a priority, and that the Bush administration's foot dragging is to be
stopped.

The decisions on this, via the EPA, will be based on science alone, not
economic
issues.

Maybe we will hear, or read, more about this in the days to come.

Have a nice day

 

Just opinions, huh, Put?

 

Thank you for your honesty. Everybody get that? Mr. Gore can waste as
much energy as he wants because he is part of the liberal elite and has
paid his indulogences.

I will - because it is a perfect fit. After all - if the good that a
new wing to that cathedral over there is compared to the damage done by
raping one girl, then certainly everyone would agree that the larger
cathedral will more than offset the rape of one girl.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Opinions are all that you have - you certainly don't have the science.
After all - Paul wants a show of hands on the laws of physics.

You think indulgences are a good thing?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

I'm saying that the power - 100% of it - gets converted to heat back at
the Gore home.

Ummm - the laws of physics do not obey democratic movements. To use a
common saying: "Reality is a bitch".

"In fact, an investment of an additional $8 per month on your power bill
buys enough Green Power Switch to equal the environmental benefits of
planting an acre of trees in the Tennessee Valley."

LOL! I'd like to see the math on that. But no - it's just a cute
little argument thrown out there and it will be accepted without
question just like the faked "scientific proof" that the snow pack in
the Cascade Mountians had dropped 50% in 50 years. And when someone
points out the sleight of hand, they get removed from their position for
not going along with the lie.

Indulgences. Pay us money for future questionable promises, and we'll
excuse anything you do short of murder or rape, and if we're clever, we
probably could get a show of hands to get you off of either one of
those, maybe both.

He has caused 17 times (assuming the new figures you've cited) more
carbon fuels to be burned than the average American home owner.

Again, let me know when he has reduced that to 5 or even 10 times the
typical American home usage.

But that kind of clear thinking is only reserved by the environmentlists
for the liberal elite. Would they allow me the same argument (Hint: NO!).

OK - so the environmentalists should be hounding Mr. Gore about
"conspicuous consumption" for living so wastefully. But - yes - I know
- he's part of the liberal elite, so we will allow him to do whatever he
wants to do wothout criticism. But we will criticize everyone else for
what they do and will not allow *ANY* explanation from them to justify it.

Can you say *DOUBLE STANDARD*!?

Great rationalization for allowing a liberal elite to do what no one
else would be allowed to rationalize. Your illogic is really tranparent
to anyone with an IQ above 70.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Putt...I am a chemist. I have had courses in thermo...
And please separate your hatred for Al Gore from the subject at hand.

I dont really care what Gore does.

 

I dont think you have the science, Put...A person who is as negative as you
are
probably couldnt hold a job in the field....at least, not for long.

 

Good point. We should take away his Secret Service agents.

 

[...snipping in an effort to keep things manageable...]

Yes, all electricity eventually turns into heat, but renewable energy
such as wind and solar doesn't result in a *NET INCREASE* in the
earth's temperature. Or are you still maintaining that wind and solar
energy contribute to global warming?

[...]

Well, I'm suggesting to you your understanding of physics (not to
mention climate change) is .... uhm, how can I put this ....
unconventional, to say the least. You're telling me that converting
sunlight into electricity which, in turn, turns into heat, produces
*MORE* heat than just the sunlight striking the earth -- that if we
didn't convert this sunlight into electricity -- simply let it be --
the earth would be measurably cooler. By the same token, every time
man puts up another wind turbine, we generate more electricity that
ultimately produces more heat and, consequently, the earth warms up
just that tiny bit more. Thus, if we continue to convert sunlight and
wind into electricity, we'll eventually cook ourselves right off the
face of the earth, because every kWh of renewable energy is just one
more kWh of that sneaky heat in disguise, and every kWh of heat we
*CREATE* in this manner extracts its deadly toll. Correct?

[...]

So you're telling me the TVA *must* be lying, which I'm sure from your
perspective only makes sense given that global warming is nothing more
than one big lie anyway. Right?

And to think O.J. wasted all that money on an expensive legal team
when all he needed to do was buy some renewable energy and conduct a
few opinion polls. Gee. What a shame.

[...]

And now you're telling me wind and solar are **CARBON FUELS**? Wow, I
have to tell you I'm learning so much from our conversation. Gosh,
isn't the internet wonderful?

[...]

Life's unfair. Here's a Klennex.

I bought a home that was an energy pig, plain and simple, and I worked
hard to fix it. Mr. Gore is working on his, so why not judge him on
the results of his efforts? Or would you prefer that we bash him
before he has a chance? Your call.

Maybe I should apply for some sort of disability pension. Would you
be willing to participate in my eligibility assessment?

Cheers,
Paul

 

We seem to be covering the same ground over and over again, but let me
try this once more. Mr. Gore is welcome to use as much wind and solar
energy as he likes, given that they are *NOT* carbon based fuels
(contrary to your claim) and, on that basis, do not contribute to the
warming of this planet (contrary to your other claim).

I've also indicated that Mr. Gore's purchase of green power is helping
to expand the TVA's portfolio of clean, renewable energy and that
these investments will continue to provide real, tangible benefits
long after he no longer requires this electricity for his own use.
Can I state this any more clearly?

You might consider ditching your day job for an anchor position with
Fox News. Trust me, you'll be a hit.

Cheers,
Paul

 

Sorry - I've proved you wrong for 29 years. Being realistic is not
being negative.

You've proven you don't understand the science, or at least are not
honest with it. But then, that just means you're no different than most
of the people pulling the strings in the enviro-nut world.

Hey - did you hear that Belgium is taxing barbecueing now - $20 euros a
session. And - get this - they bought a bunch of helicopters to fly
around all the time with heat sensors to find violators. Gee - I wonder
what the cost to the environment is to build brand new helicopters that
burn more carbon-based fuel and put out more emmisions than a ton of
charcoal grills. Maybe those helicopters are solar powered. Yeah
that's it! LOL!

Once again - I'd like to see the math on that one! But that's OK - it
would be faked anyway. The important thing is that it makes people feel
good, even if it actually does more harm to the environment than good.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Then either you didn't learn it or you are not honest with it.

Hatred? Nope. It's just that hypocracy, systems of indulgences, and
driving bogus harmful legislation by using false science disgust me.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

OK - stop with the dishonesty.

Gore used 17 times (according to your numbers) more power in his home in
2006. That was not using solar or wind power. The indulgences thing
is a separate discussion altogether.

No - you're being dishonest about it. You keep saying that I said
things that I did not say.

No. I never said any of that. But you knew that. See above.

You're exhibiting the dishonesty that is prevalent among your fellow
believers. Thanks for illustrating my point in spades.

Speaking of dishonesty - how about Congressman Altberg in PA who
recently went to speak to some school kids about global warming. One of
the kids asked him "Didn't you arrive here in a limousine? Altberg lied
and siad "No". Suddenly there was a rush of Altberg's aids out of the
school building to go hide the limo 2 blocks down the street and pull a
Jeep wagon up to the curb. Altberg was confused when they were getting
him into the Jeep. But they drove him down the street to the waiting
limo and explained to him. Ah - liberals - you gotta love em!

I believe the earth's climate naturally cycles, and that's what we're
seeing.

How about the fact that was pointed out earlier that we are at the peak
of a solar miximum right now.

There's that dishonesty again. For the 5th or so time - I didn't say
that. In 2006, Gore's energy usage was not with wind or solar. But,
again, you knew that.

Oh no - Kleenexes™ damage the environment. I just wipe it on my pants.

That's great. So what.

But you would only give that pass to someone of the right poiltical
persuasion.

 

Please quote where I said that.

Mr. Gore did not use wind or solar to consume 20 times - pardon me - 17
times the average American home usage in 2006.

I do a lot of good for people, So does that mean I get to plunder the
environment in the meantime. After all - I'm doing more good overall
than damage. That's your logic.

 

Bill Putney
Thanks for exposing the envoro fakers for who they are. Keep up the good
work.
I'll stop driving my SUV as soon as China, India and the rest get there
house in the same order as ours.