Yet another coolant thread - Matrix Chart

Actually, Nalcool 2000 was a pretty good package. Not sold in stores.....
But you could buy it in drums, for fleet applications, etc.

 

Other than hard water (I used only distilled), was there any

No, other than the possibility to precipitate magnesium and calcium as
phosphate salts, I know of no other reason. Maybe I will research it
when I get a few minutes. Perhaps there was something I missed.

We developed some organic phosphates which worked well, and did
not seem to have the precipitation problems of the inorganics. These
are still used in large quantities in some industries.

I use whatever the manufacturer recommends, but I flush and change
out the coolant every couple of years.

As I mentioned before, there is no 100% perfect technology for mixed
metallurgy found in todays systems.

Keeping the air out, which the surge tank or overflow tank helped
accomplish, did a lot of good when they started to be used years ago.

The biggest problem I saw was a proper inhibitor for aluminum. Silicates
weren't so very great, and they caused precipitation and blockage of
radiators.

I havent worked on this in 4-5 years now, and hope that significant
improvements have been made.

 

Phosphate has been known as an algae bloom and plant growth promoter
for years, and soaps and detergents have been modified to decrease the
outfall to the environment. Many products have little likelihood of ending
up as a major pollutant, but if they contain certain compounds, they are
discouraged or prohibited, as the case may be.

Phosphate has some other potentially problematic points, although not
serious
enough to lose sleep over. Magnesium and calcium can form sparingly soluble
compounds with phosphate, so the possibility for mineral deposition is
conceivable.

Some environmental scientists are, unfortunately, just full of shit.
Reference the
environmentalists in the United Kingdom who believe that frog and salamander
mutations around certain watercourses, and human male fertility of the men
who
live nearby, have been effected by hormone concentrations in the water.

Source? The ladies, God love them, who take birth control pills,and then pee
in septic systems along the river course.

I prefer infusion of hormones by a more direct route than drinking river
water.

 

VW has had a bunch of their own boutique coolants over the last decade or
so. I'm not sure how they relate to the G-05 Mopar/Zerex/Ford coolant, but
they may be pretty close. The G is G-05 is Glysantin, which is a BASF
product.

 

I noticed after I started the thread that Zerex states that their branded
G-05 product is the same product as the Mopar and Ford products, except for
the dye color. This isn't suprisingly since it had been reported by
industry publications (e.g.
http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/G05-Glysantin.htm) but I
*am* surprised to see a manufacturer state this on the record. Usually OEM
and private label manufacturers seem to be a closely held secret betweenn
the brand name and the contract manufacturer.

From Zerex's web page:

What aftermarket products are approved by Ford and Chrysler?

Ford, Lincoln, Mercury brands - Ford Motorcraft Gold and
Zerex G-05 Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep brands –Mopar 5/100
Antifreeze and Zerex G-05.

What is the difference between these products?

All products use the Zerex G-05 formulation. The only
difference is the dye color.

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=10
(click on the FAQ link on the left side to make the FAQ questions/answers
visible.)

 

Yes they have. What they found out the hard way, apparently after you
left, was that the right answer as far as silicates is that high
silicates (traditional antifreeze) are not good, and zero silicates (OAT
- DexCool) are not good. A small amount of silicates is just right
(HOAT - G-05). Prestone's All Makes All Models is probably similar
(lessons learned).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

You know, I'm *still* not really clear on why traditional antifreeze is
"bad," other than being a little hard on water pump seals- although
that's never been a problem for my 60's vintage vehicles either. I've
opened up VERY high-mileage mixed-metal (iron block/aluminum head or
manifold) engines that have run their whole lives on old green Prestone
and look brand new inside. Seriously- the aluminum passages inside the
parts were in better shape than the painted or bare aluminum on the
outside of the engine, and so was the iron.

 

Different formulators used differing amounts of silicate even back then.
I tested a broad range of concentrations, and just didn't get the levels
of protection I was happy with, at any concentration. But in formulations
like this, 40-50% improvement over an untreated aluminum coupon was
better than nothing.

Silicates can cause other problems too. If the pH drops, as it will do
if there is ingress of combustion gases or if oxygen enters the system,
or just with time alone, silicates can dehydrate to silica, or silicon
dioxide¨
....Not nice.
Lots of work was done to try to inhibit the silica formation, but even high
pH
wouldn't do it. In time, it started falling out. Even using distilled
water wouldn't prevent it. Some work promoted keeping the silica
dispersed using polymers, etc, since the precipitation could not be
stopped totally.

Silicates also form complexes or salts with magnesium, iron, etc. Many
are essentially totally insoluble.

So this is the reason that an attempt was made to avoid silicates and
market a 'new and improved' product. One whose time, perhaps, had
not yet fully matured.