walmart house oil?

Ted wrote:

<But it doesen't cost an extra hundred bucks a year. The US average is

<14,000 miles per driver per car per yer. Going from 9000 to 3000 mile
means maybe
<4 oil changes a year vs 2 oil changes per year. That is only 2 extra
<changes per year. Are you really paying $50 per oil change?

No, I don't pay $50 per oil change. We also don't drive just 14,000
miles a year. 60-70,000 would be much closer. Going from 9000 intervals
to 3000 intervals requires three times as many changes...that math is
simple. There's also more to the change than the oil and filter...you
have to have the tools, the disposal, the cleanup, etc. 2 changes at
$25 is $50. 3 times 2 at $25 is $150. Looks like a hundred bucks to
me, your results may vary. If you drive 60-70K a year, it's easily an
extra hundred.

 

Ahh! That's where the additional $100 a year comes in - from when the
guy at jiffy Lube strips your oil pan drain hole threads.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Tools are a capital cost, I've owned my oil changing strap wrench for
20 years, and when I bought it it only cost $3. Disposal? We have
curbside recycling here, the garbagemen pick up used oil and
they are glad to get it - it's one of the few things among the other
recyclables that they can actually sell at a profit. Cleanup? I can
change my oil in 15 minutes in a white cotton shirt and you can't
tell I've done it.

If your a business that's running 60-70K and your paying employees to
change your vehicle's oil then I can accept that it costs $25 a change.
If your doing the changes yourself and paying $25 per change your
an idiot.

Dipstick implied it cost anyone, not him specifically, an extra hundred,
that was what I objected to.

I've seen the extended drain advocate posts many times and there's
always a couple points they miss:

1) High mileage vehicles get maintained a lot better than average mileage
vehicles (if they don't they die pretty quick and the owners learn pretty
fast to start maintaining them better) and your not going to see one of
these run low on oil without being noticed

2) Your also going to see high mileage vehicles get better quality parts
(not the garbage-grade Frams, or the higher-quality Frams full of
teflon) specifically oil filters.

3) High mileage vehicles don't have a lot of cold spells to let all the
water
and acids and crap condense into the oil

4) it's a big savings to extend the oil change on a high mileage vehicle, it
is little savings to extend it on average mileage vehicle

5) High mileage vehicles often are run with synthetic oil, the average
vehicle isn't.

6) high mileage vehicles specifically ones in businesses tend to have
their oil changes done by paid employes which costs more, the average
mileage vehicle tends more to having the owner change the oil which
costs less.

All of these points I believe mean that an extended oil change interval
that would be Ok for a high mileage vehicle specifically one used in a
business, may not apply to a low mileage vehicle. I think in a lot more
cases than people realize, it does not apply.

Another argument that the extended drain people use is the conspiacy
one that says the oil change places are all trying to con people into
using 3000K changes. That always irritates me because the quick
change places never get more or less money as a result of a lot of
people who do their own changes, since they don't get any money at
all for these.

Ted

 

Ted wrote:

<Tools are a capital cost, I've owned my oil changing strap wrench for
<20 years, and when I bought it it only cost $3. Disposal? We have
<curbside recycling here, the garbagemen pick up used oil and
<they are glad to get it - it's one of the few things among the other
<recyclables that they can actually sell at a profit. Cleanup? I can
<change my oil in 15 minutes in a white cotton shirt and you can't
<tell I've done it.

It takes more than a strap wrench to change oil. With my 4 vehicles I
have to have two different filter wrenches (can't get a strap wrench on
one of them) and there are three different sizes of drain plugs (on 3
Pontiacs, no less!). Also have to have something to drain the oil into
and generally some way to get the front of the vehicle up in the air a
bit. I use a floor jack. Disposal will be all over the place, depending
on where you are. The "legal" way here is to carry it to an oil change
place that will accept it (most will charge you) or to a city fire
station which will take it free. Then you have the oily rags, something
to clean up the crud that runs down the block and onto the frame rails,
etc.

<If your doing the changes yourself and paying $25 per change your
<an idiot.

$25 is probably a bit excessive, even including all the true costs.
$15-20 would not be unreasonable at all, though. Glad I'm a few bucks
from being an idiot

<Dipstick implied it cost anyone, not him specifically, an extra
hundred,
<that was what I objected to.

Maybe that's what you read, it's not what I intended. I was speaking of
my specific 60-70,000 miles per year between 4 vehicles situation, and
trying to put an upper limit of a hundred extra a year on it.

I'm with you on the 3000 mile changes. There is a lot of evidence that
says it isn't necessary. I do it anyway. The other point I tried to
make in the beginning is that most vehicle/drivers fall in the
manufacturer's "severe" or whatever they call it category whether they
believe it or not.

For what it's worth, the daughter's '04 Grand Am with the oil life
system said it was time to change oil at 2200 miles last time
around....those 1 and 2 and 5 mile trips in the dead of winter take
their toll.

 

Last time I checked, WM's 100% synthetic was made by Quaker State, part of
the worldwide BP conglomerate. At slightly over two bucks a quart (in gallon
jugs) you can't beat it with a stick.

Rick

=----

 

You just haven't changed them enough to have the experience to do it
quickly and cleanly. Like I said, I can do it in a white cotton shirt and
you can't tell I've done it. I've done it often enough in my vehicles that
I know exactly where to put my arms so the used oil from the filter
doesen't come cascading down my arms, and I use a big drip pan that
catches everything, and I don't let the drain plug drop into the pan so
I'm fishing around in used oil for it, etc. etc. And I only use a single
rag.

Jus tlike anything, there's tricks to it that you can learn to do it quickly
and cleanly. I wasn't always that way with me I'll admit. One of the
2nd or 3rd oil changes I ever did back when I was probably 16, I thought
the filter was stuck, ended up trying the old hammer the screwdriver through
the filter and pound on it trick, black oil was everywhere, all over the
floor, all over me, in my hair, yuck. Then I finally figured out I was
turning
the filter backwards, by then it was so jammed on and so much of it
was torn away that I had to go buy a special strap wrench, fortunately
it came off.

And of course, I had to be somewhere to meet my girlfriend that
evening, so by the time that I did meet her I was just barely on time,
had not had a chance to take a shower, and of course when she meets
me she reaches up to tousel my hair and pulls her hand back, yuuck!
It put rather a damper on the evening, better than any chasity belt I
can tell you.

Shucks/Checkers loves to put oil on sale with their little coupons in
the paper and the rebates, for the last 7 years I've never spent more
than a dollar a quart on name brand dino oil. Unfortunately they only
carry Fram filters so I never buy filters there, but a few places put
Purolator filters on sale a couple times a year, once again as loss-leaders.
I always buy oil and filters on sale when they go on sale and I buy as
much as I have storage space for and as I think I'm going to use for
the next year.

I also have a 10 gallon plastic oil container that I put used oil in,
After I do a change I set the catch pan out on end against the side
of the garage overnight to drain into the oil container. In the morning
I put the used filter face down in the catch pan and let that drain
over the next day. Whenever the family buys milk in the 1 gallon plastic
jugs I
rinse them out and toss them under the workbench. When the
big container starts getting heavy I pour it off into the plastic jugs
set them out for recycling. The used oil filters get set out for metals
recycling as well.

That way then oil change time does come, I just have to walk
out to the garage and everything is right there ready to go.

There is absolutely no one reputable that would tell you to NOT check
your oil LEVEL every 3000 miles, but wait longer. Most would say
to check oil level a lot more frequently, preferably at every fueling. The
problem I find is that almost always when I need gas I'm either running
late, or am squeakly clean going to work, or going out, or with
the kids, or whatever. In short, nowhere that I can afford to get my
fingers all dirty and greasy which happens when I lift the hood. In the
morning
when I go out to the car I'm clean and trying to go somewhere, in the
evening when I come back the last thing on my mind is checking the
oil level, not to mention most times it's dark outside anyway. I just
cannot imagine that it's any different for most other people,
and I think a hell of a lot of people give lip service to the idea that they
check their oil frequently, in reality I think most people don't. And I'm
mechanically inclined, the idea that my wife would even know how
to check oil level let alone do it is laughable.

It may not be necessary to change the oil every 3000 miles but merely to
check the oil level every 3000 miles, but in my family to even do that
means it has to be scheduled, a time has to be set aside for it, or it won't
happen. And if I'm going to go to the trouble to schedule lifting the
hood, just going ahead and changing the oil is hardly any more effort than
that, and I'm also going to check the antifreeze level, washer fluid, etc.
etc.

Ted

 

But if my life is any example, getting to the point where you know how
to do it without getting oil all over the place comes in two distinct
stages:

Stage 1: You learn that there is no way to shorten the time of pain when
your arm is covered in hot oil. Flailing about or reaching for a rag to
wipe the oil off with doesn't help. You learn that the only thing you
can do is bite your lip (or keep a stick handy to bite down on like in
the movies when a guy is having his leg amputated with no anesthetic)
and wait for the oil film to cool down or the nerves to deaden.

Stage 2: This is where you learn to avoid the deep-fried arm in the
first place. I have it down now to where at most I get oil on the tips
of two fingers as I gently turn the plug out of the last two turns with
slight outward force so you're out of the stream quickly when it does
come out, and I have a rag laid out on the floor as the trajectory
target of my hand with plug to lay the plug on. The involved surface
area of the finger tips is small enough not to cause any pain.

(At this point, someone is likely to chime in extolling the virtues of
the Fram Sure-Drain™ or competing product.)

Poppy-cock. It's simple time management (which I am otherwise lousy
at). As you're getting out of the car, you pull the hood latch (time
lost: zero). While you have the nozzle latched on waiting for the
click-off (fuel flows no faster holding it wide open than latched on the
highest notch), you raise the hood and check the oil and are done and
standing beside the nozzle before 12 to 15 gallons is dispensed. Use a
paper towel supplied at the pump to wipe the dipstick - your fingers
don't touch a molecule of oil. As far as getting dirty in the process
of simply lifting the hood and pulling/inserting the stick, I don't
understand that.

Total time lost relative to not checking the oil and standing around
waiting for the fill to finish: Zero. If you're already running late,
you will be no later for having checked the oil.

Quit making excuses and get your head out and your priorities straight
Mittelstaedt!!

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

The 3.5 in my 3ooM is a piece of cake to do an oil change.
The 3.0 in 1988 New Yorker in no problem.

The 4.6 in my 1995 T-Bird is a pain in the butt. There is no way you will
ever NOT get dirty changing oil and filter in that car.

 

Ted wrote:

<You just haven't changed them enough to have the experience to <do it
quickly and cleanly. Like I said, I can do it in a white cotton <shirt
and you can't tell I've done it. I've done it often enough in my
<vehicles that I know exactly where to put my arms so the used oil
<from the filter doesen't come cascading down my arms, and I use <a big
drip pan that catches everything, and I don't let the drain <plug drop
into the pan so I'm fishing around in used oil for it, etc. <etc. And
I only use a single rag.

60,000 a year, 3000 between changes is 20 changes a year. I've changed
my own for the last 34 years, so I'd have to say I've had enough
practice. Some are less messy than others. (Cars and people )


<Shucks/Checkers loves to put oil on sale with their little coupons <in
the paper and the rebates, for the last 7 years I've never spent <more
than a dollar a quart on name brand dino oil.

The nearest Checkers to me is right at 280 miles. I could buy oil at
Walmart, but as I said above, I don't buy anything from them. Could
also get it cheaper at Autozone than where I buy, but I also don't do
business with them. I've been dealing with the same parts place (and
same counter guy) for 28 years. They bring parts to my house if they
don't have them in stock. Haven't had to pay for a battery in
years....A good parts store with a good parts man is priceless, even if
their oil is $2 a quart for the name brands.

<There is absolutely no one reputable that would tell you to NOT <check
your oil LEVEL every 3000 miles, but wait longer.

Absolutely agreed. I've never had anyone suggest that as far as I can
remember. If your vehicles don't leak oil (which I won't tolerate) and
don't use an inordinate amount, then there is no need to check it every
fill-up, either. If it's not leaking and it's not burning, then it's
still in there! Mine gets checked every 2-3 weeks I'd say ...
especially the ones that I don't drive myself.

One other tip for those with side terminal batteries... The oil change
is a good time to make sure those pesky little side terminals are still
tight. They tend to loosen with time and create all sorts of
unpleasantries.

 

I tend to change my oil in two steps. This saves getting burned and
allows much more complete drainage, but doesn't get me done in the 15
minutes that Ted suggested. I like to chang my oil when it is really
hot so I tend to do so after having driven at least 20 minutes. I then
put the car on the ramps and let it cool just a few minutes as I'm
gathering my supplies (oil, filter, tools, etc.)

I then remove the drain plug as this is the least messy for me. The
plug can be a little hot at times, but usually I use a box-end wrench
which helps soak out some of the heat. I then loosen it until the
threads are completely free and oil has begun to drip and then pull it
out briskly and drop it onto a cloth. I seldom get oil on my fingers
with this process.

I then go do something else for 30 - 60 minutes letting the oil drain
until it virtually isn't even dripping any longer. I then wipe around
the drain hole, clean the plug, replace the crush washer on cars that
require this (seems only Japanese and Korean cars) and install the plug.
The engine is now pretty cool so I move the drain pan under the oil
filter and remove that next. On some of my cars this isn't too bad (my
truck has a horizontal filter so I can unscrew it and let it drain
without getting messy, other than the fact that it drips right onto the
front driveshaft u-joint!

On my other two vehicles (Grand Caravan and Hyundai Sonata), the filters
are vertical and I haven't found a way to escape having oil run down the
filter when loosening it. I could puncture it, but I haven't found that
to be much less messy. The vertical filters are nice in that you can
prefill the new filter to save time on the engine running with no oil
pressure, but they are a pain for removal. Some folks wrap a large rag
around the filter, but I just loosen it until it starts to leak and let
it drip for a while before taking it the rest of the way off.

The Caravan isn't too bad as access to the filter is good, but the
Sonata is a pain as there is a plastic air shield under the engine and
they only provide about a 5-6" diamter hole for oil filter access. It
is just big enough to fit my forearm through and I don't think I could
get a rag and filter back down through the hole if I used a rag to
capture the oil while removing the filter.

If you push in on the plug until you feel it "skip" as the last thread
is cleared once, and then remove it briskly, you can usually avoid even
getting your finger tips oily.

I considered that for my Sonata, but the issue isn't the drain plug,
other than the need to replace the crush washer at every change - this
would probably buy a quick drain fitting after 100,000 miles of changes!
The issue for me with regard to mess is the filter not the drain plug.

Except that here in PA almost all of the self-serve stations remove the
automatic dispensing latches. I don't think it is a law as I do
occasionally find a station with pump handles so eqiupped, but the local
stations I buy from don't have this. Some folks stick their gas cap in
to jamb the handle, but I don't like that idea much.

Yea, Ted, shape up!


Matt

 

If I drove 60,000 miles a year, I'd never change at 3,000 mile
intervals. Driving at that pace (even if this mileage is spread over 3
cars), you can easily run 5,000 and probably could go 10,000. I change
at 5,000 on my vehicles that are under warranty and then typically go to
10,000 mile intervals after they have 100,000 miles or so. I use Mobil
1 and have never had a problem with this. My last minivan had 178,000
miles and was running strong with a drunk driver took it out a few
months ago.

I agree. I do buy my Mobil 1 at Wal-Mart given the cost, but I buy
filters and any other real parts elsewhere, often at NAPA.


Matt

 

Matt (and Bill) wrote...

A guy that can change oil in a white shirt using one rag and not get
dirty won't check his oil at the filling station for fear of geting
dirty....just doesn't quite add up, does it ;-)

 

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't say anything...


Matt

 

Matt Whiting wrote:

I don't know why the mfgrs. are so chincy with good oil plugs and
washers, and the washers in the auto parts stores are either extremely
hard fiber board so as to have no compliance, and they therefore leak
and tempt idiots to overtighten the plug/strip the pan thread, or are
some really soft, cheap plastic that absolutely *have* to be replaced
every time and they charge a ridiculous price for those - what a racket!
They do have the kind of plug with a so-so rubber gasket molded around
the OD of the plug head, but it is not controlled crush, and lasts only
a few oil changes before needing the plug and gasket replaced (gasket
bonded to the head).

The absolute best plug/washer combination is the plug with a groove
machined into the land area of the plug head into which you place a
standard o-ring - a fraction of the o-ring cross-section sticks up a few
tens of thousandths of an inch above the land area. This gives a
perfect *many-times* re-useable, idiot-proof (unless the idiot decides
to loose the o-ring), controlled crush gasket - and if the 10¢ o-ring
ever does wear out, you just pull one out of the bag of extras you keep
in your tool box.

Most Chryslers take a plug with M14-1.5 thread - some years of Hondas do
too, and theirs has this o-ring-in-the-groove type gasket - that's what
I use on my Concorde. It's a rare occassion when one of those leaks.

The second best type of plug/gasket is similar to the o-ring one, except
the o-ring is essentially molded into the groove - very seldom leak,
re-useable, but when they wear out, you replace the whole plug. The
adavantage of those is that the idiot can't loose the gasket, and it is
almost guaranteed not to leak (he can strip the threads, but he'll do
that with any type plug/gasket no matter what). Some Fords (and maybe
GM's) come with those when new, but when you order replacement plugs
thru the dealer, they are the typical parts-store quality plug and
non-controlled crush gasket. Grrr!

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Hi...

Let me add to your pondering...

How in the world does the wind know I'm changing oil in the
driveway?

And even more astonishing, how does it know the precise minute
to gust, and in which direction to gust to get the last thin
trickles exactly in my face?

Take care.

Ken

 

Then that is Mobil's fault, not the home improvement store! The oil

Not far fetched. You could FOIL the file from the state agency. The chain
purchased base oil from a third party jobber for a very low price. The
jobber purchased bass oil in bulk from Mobil and had it packaged and labeled
in quart sized cans. They were able to sell it cheep because it was just
basic stock oil that cost them about 8 cents a can of product. We were able
to get it pulled from the market because it did not accurately state the
source of the product, a requirement of our state's weights and measures
law. At the time there were not state regulations on oil quality.

Richard.

 

My Caravan has a plug with a rubber gasket built in and it works great.
My Chevy truck has a washer that appears to be aluminum, but I don't
remember ever seeing a recommendation to replace it and so far it has
survived 18+ oil changes as it has 92,000 miles on it.

Yes, my minivan is sort of like this, but I don't think the rubber
gasket is replaceable, but then I haven't tried to replace it either.

The only Honda I owned was an 84 Accord and it used aluminum washers
like my Hyundai and called for replacement at each oil change.

This sounds like what my 03 Carvan uses. So far it has worked great.


Matt

 

Not to mention the fact that hard mileage like that is EXACTLY where
long oil change intervals make the most sense as far as the oil
condition, too. Short trip driving is much harder on oil because of
contamination with fuel and water than hard/high mileage driving.

 

Know this proves it is bogus. Mobil does not sell bulk oil to independants.
Mobil packages it's own oil, and not to others to re-package.

 

Did you all notice that Matt and Ted have posted about 15,000 words in this
thread?

You guys could have done a lifetime worth of oil changes in the time it took
to do that.