Valvoline Transmission Fluid ATF+3 Chrysler Approved?

I was at a Napa auto parts store recently and saw Valvoline ATF+3 transmission
fluid.It says it eliminates trainy shudder.I looked on the back and it says it
is Chrysler approved for Chrysler transmissions.I thought only Chrysler`s own
fluid was approved for their transmissions.

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ATF+3 has been available thru aftermarket for some time. The later (and
better) fluid is ATF+4 - which up until this month *was* only available
thru DC. There was a press release in August from DC saying that ATF+4
is licensed for aftermarket sale starting this month.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

BTW: in Germany DC gave out a warning to their dealers NOT to mix ATF+3
and ATF+4! So if you run ATF+3 you need to stick to it or you have to do
a complete tranny flush with ATF+4.

Sven

 

I have 1996 and 1999 Chrysler vehicles that both came from the factory with
ATF+3. I've changed the fluid in both using drop the pan and replace the
fluid and filter method 2 times each (30 and 60K miles) and both times
I've used ATF+4. I know this does not prove much, but I've suffered no ill
effects on wither vehicle. As I recall, (the synthetic or semi-synthetic)
AT+4 gallon container stated it could be mixed with ATF+3.

I'd like to understand why they issued the warning and if it was for any
good reason, or just to charge more to require the flush first.

Bob

 

FWIW, the DC TSB No. 21-004-04 says: "NOTE :ATF+4(R) is compatible with
ATF+3 and ATF+2. ATF+4(R) can be used to top off vehicles that currently
have ATF+2 or ATF+3. Do not use ATF+2 or ATF+3 to top off vehicles that
have ATF+4(R) fluid."

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Bullfeathers. ATF+4 and ATF+3 are entirely compatible. In fact, +4
supercedes +3. The only "no no" is that you shouldn't use +3 in a
transmission designed for +4, but the other way around works fine.

 

Hi Bob,

From DC:

Quote:

TSB-NUMBER: 21-004-04
Date: March 16, 2004

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-006-01, DATED
JUNE 29, 2001.

(...)

DISCUSSION:
A new transmission fluid (ATF +4 - Type 9602) has been developed and is
being used as a factory fill in the above models. **Plants that build
rear wheel drive models (other than Prowler) will introduce ATF +4
throughout the 2000 calendar year.** This Technical Service Bulletin
will be updated as additional models are introduced to ATF +4.

(...)

NOTE: ATF +4 MUST ALWAYS BE USED IN VEHICLES THAT WERE ORIGINALLY FILLED
WITH ATF +4. USING ATF +3 IN THESE VEHICLES WILL DECREASE THE BENEFITS
OF THIS NEW FLUID.

AT THIS TIME, VEHICLES ORIGINALLY FILLED WITH ATF +2 OR ATF +3 SHOULD
CONTINUE TO BE SERVICED WITH ATF +3 - TYPE 7176.

(...)

unquote


Major difference from what I can see between +3 and +4 seems to be that
+4 is thinner than +3 as it is semi-synth.

Filling +4 does not necessarily mean that it will kill your tranny, but
DC does NOT recommend it. Apart from this, some should even run fine
on Dexron III...

Here the problem might be more severe as the tranny has to stand higher
speeds on the Autobahn and therefore higher temp than at yours. Here 80
mph is the official "recommended" average speed for the Autobahn...

Personally I would NOT fill +4 in a +3 tranny - and especially not mix it.

Sven

 

You should read tru it to the bottom! Did it for you, see above.

Sven

 

What does

mean?

 

It means "incorrect information." A more polite expression than
"bullsh*t," which means pretty much the same thing.

 

Look at the dates. The TSB you quoted is a 2001 TSB- outdated. The later
TSB says that ATF+4 can be used in cars built for ATF+3.

 

It WAS taken out of the DC TSB No. 21-004-04. Unless you say that DC
always fully quotes OLD TSB in the NEW ones without stating this, I take
it for the latest info.

Here is the text again, with some highlights:

=====================
TSB-NUMBER: 21-004-04
=====================

Date: March 16, 2004


** THIS BULLETIN ** (means the one which as well has the text below)
SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-006-01, DATED JUNE 29, 2001.

(...)

DISCUSSION:
A new transmission fluid (ATF +4 - Type 9602) has been developed and is
being used as a factory fill in the above models. **Plants that build
rear wheel drive models (other than Prowler) will introduce ATF +4
throughout the 2000 calendar year.** This Technical Service Bulletin
will be updated as additional models are introduced to ATF +4.

(...)

NOTE: ATF +4 MUST ALWAYS BE USED IN VEHICLES THAT WERE ORIGINALLY FILLED
WITH ATF +4. USING ATF +3 IN THESE VEHICLES WILL DECREASE THE BENEFITS
OF THIS NEW FLUID.

AT THIS TIME, VEHICLES ORIGINALLY FILLED WITH ATF +2 OR ATF +3 SHOULD
CONTINUE TO BE SERVICED WITH ATF +3 - TYPE 7176.

Sven

p.s.: thanks for the bullshit. If you want to be impolite, "just do it"
and do not try to beat around the bush.

 

Why do you chose to ignore what I already quoted from the TSB that you
are only partially quoting. Here it is again:
"NOTE :ATF+4(R) is compatible with ATF+3 and ATF+2. ATF+4(R) can be used
to top off vehicles that currently have ATF+2 or ATF+3. Do not use ATF+2
or ATF+3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4(R) fluid."

Much of the stuff you quoted is *NOT* in the TSB 21-004-04 that I have
access. For your reference, below my signature in this post, I have
pasted the *full* *text* of the TSB 21-004-04 (the only thing missing is
the table of vehiclesa and a one-line table giving the MOPAR part number
for the ATF+4).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

*
*
*
****FULL TEXT OF TSB 21-004-04 FOLLOWS****
*
*
*

A/T - ATF Usage List

NUMBER: 21-004-04

GROUP: Transmission

DATE: March 16, 2004

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-006-01, DATED
JUNE 29, 2001, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. THIS IS A
COMPLETE REVISION AND NO ASTERISKS HAVE BEEN ADDED TO HIGHLIGHT REVISIONS.

SUBJECT:
Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type 9602)

MODELS:

NOTE : This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by
Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE
transmission. This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AWD
transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG
bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAGI transmission (sales code DGJ).

DISCUSSION:

A new transmission fluid (ATF+4(R) - Type 9602) has been developed and
is being used as factory fill for all vehicles with Chrysler automatic
transmissions. It is recommended that all vehicles with Chrysler
automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE LISTED ABOVE be serviced with
ATF+4(R).

NOTE :ATF+4(R) must always be used in vehicles that were originally
filled with ATF+4(R).

NOTE :Service intervals do not change. The service interval currently in
effect for a given vehicle should continue to be followed.

NOTE :ATF+4(R) is compatible with ATF+3 and ATF+2. ATF+4(R) can be used
to top off vehicles that currently have ATF+2 or ATF+3. Do not use ATF+2
or ATF+3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4(R) fluid.

BENEFITS

^ Better anti-wear properties

^ Improved rust/corrosion prevention

^ Controls oxidation

^ Eliminates deposits

^ Controls friction

^ Retains anti-foaming properties

^ Superior properties for low temperature operation


FLUID COLOR

Mopar ATF+4(R) is a World Class Fluid having exceptional durability.
However, the red dye used in ATF+4(R) is not permanent; as the fluid
ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4(R) also has a
unique odor that may change with age. With ATF+4(R) fluid, color and
odor are no longer indicators of fluid condition and do not support a
fluid change.

PARTS REQUIRED:

POLICY:
Information Only

Disclaimer :This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and
is not an authorization for repair.

 

Its still incorrect. A TSB stating that ATF+4 is backward-compatible has
been quoted here many times in the past year or so.

 

See my post just above this one - I quote the TSB in its entirety
(nothing except tables left out).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Jolly good, that makes one of you. The rest of us, who can actually read
what DC writes on the topic and understand the concept of later
information superseding earlier information, will carry on using +4 in all
those transmissions for which DC currently recommends it, which means
virtually all transmissions originally filled with ATF+, ATF+2, and ATF+3.

 

It means you don't know what you're talking about.

 

So we have 2 TSB's? From which my text was taken, can you compare this?
Full quote below.

Here DC apparently ordered dealers to completely flush trannys where
they filled in ATF+4 on top of ATF+3.

And which service intervals would you go for with ATF+4?

Sven

Here is what I have:
====================

TSB-NUMBER: 21-004-04
Date: March 16, 2004

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-006-01, DATED
JUNE 29, 2001.

GROUP: Transmission

SUBJECT: Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type 9602)

MODELS:
1989 - 1995 (AA) Spirit/Acclaim/Lebaron Sedan
1989 - 2003 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
1989 - 1993 (AC) Dynasty/New Yorker/New Yorker Salon
1989 - 1993 (AD) Ram Truck
1989 - 1994 (AG) Daytona
1989 (AH) Lancer/Lebaron GTS
1989 - 1995 (AJ) Lebaron Coupe/Lebaron Convertible
1989 - 1990 (AK) Aries/Reliant
1989 - 1990 (AL) Horizon/Omni
1989 (AM) Diplomat/Gran Fury/New Yorker fifth Avenue
1989 - 2004 (AN) Dakota
1989 - 1994 (AP) Shadow/Sundance
1990 - 1991 (AQ) Maserati
1990 - 1993 (AY) Imperial/New Yorker Fifth Avenue
1994 - 2003 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
2004 - 2005 (CS) Pacifica
1998 - 2003 (DN) Durango
2002 - 2004 (DR) Ram Truck
1995 - 2000 (FJ) Sebring/Avenger/Talon
2000 (GS) Chrysler Voyager (International Market)
2004 (HB) Durango
1995 - 2000 (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze
2001- 2004 (JR) Sebring Sedan & Convertible/Stratus Sedan
1996 - 2000 (JX) Sebring Convertible
2002 - 2004 (KJ) Liberty
1993 - 2004 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/Vision/LHS/New Yorker /300M
2005 (LX) Chrysler 300/Magnum
2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1995 - 2004 (PL) Neon
2002 - 2003 (PG) PT Cruiser (International Markets)
2001 - 2005 (PT) PT Cruiser
1997 - 2002 (PR) Prowler
2001 - 2005 (RG) Chrysler Voyager (International Markets)
2001 - 2005 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1997 - 2004 (TJ) Wrangler
2001 - 2004 (WG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1999 - 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
1989 - 1995 (YJ) Wrangler
1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee/Grand Wagoneer

NOTE: This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by
Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE
transmission , This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AW-4
transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG
bodies equipped with a 5J400 or NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ).

DISCUSSION:
A new transmission fluid (ATF+4® - Type 9602) has been developed and is
being used as factory fill for all vehicles with Chrysler automatic
transmissions.It is recommended that all vehicles with Chrysler
automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE LISTED ABOVE be serviced with
ATF+4®.

NOTE: ATF+4® must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled
with ATF+4®.

NOTE: Service intervals do not change. The service interval currently in
effect for a given vehicle should continue to be followed.

NOTE: ATF+4® is compatible with ATF+3 and ATF+2. ATF+4 can be used to
top off vehicles that currently have ATF+2 or ATF+3. Do not use ATF+2 or
ATF+3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4® fluid.

BENEFITS
..Better anti-wear properties
..Improved rust/corrosion prevention
..Controls oxidation
..Eliminates deposits
..Controls friction
..Retains anti-foaming properties
..Superior properties for low temperature operation


FLUID COLOR
Mopar ATF+4® is a World Class Fluid having exceptional durability.
However, the red dyen used in ATF+4® is not permanent; as the fluid ages
it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4® also has a unique
odor that may change with age. With ATF+4® fluid, color and odor are no
longer indicators of fluid condition and do not support a fluid change.

PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty. Part No. Description

AR 05013457AA Fluid, Transmission, ATF+4® (Type 9602),Quart



SUBJECT: New Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage (ATF +4 Type 9602)

**NOTE: THIS INFORMATION APPLIES TO MODELS AS FOLLOWS:**

MODELS BUILD DATE
**GS** **AFTER NOVEMBER 8, 1999 (MDH1108XX)** JA AFTER SEPTEMBER 7, 1998
(MDH0907XX)
**JX** **AFTER MAY 21, 1999 (MDH0521XX)** LH AFTER JULY 20, 1998 (MDH0720XX)
**NS** **AFTER OCTOBER 10, 1999 (MDH1010XX) WINDSOR ASSY PLANT**
**AFTER OCTOBER 18, 1999 (MDH1018XX) ST LOUIS ASSY PLANT**
11TH POSITION OF VIN - R = WINDSOR/B = ST LOUIS
**PL** **AFTER APRIL 24, 1999 (MDH0424XX)** PR AFTER JULY 20, 1998
(MDH0720XX)

DISCUSSION:
A new transmission fluid (ATF +4 - Type 9602) has been developed and is
being used as a factory fill in the above models. **Plants that build
rear wheel drive models (other than Prowler) will introduce ATF +4
throughout the 2000 calendar year.** This Technical Service Bulletin
will be updated as additional models are introduced to ATF +4.

**Always refer to this, or vehicle specific TSB's for the correct
transmission fluid usage whenever performing service that requires fluid
for 1999 or later models.**

NOTE: ATF +4 MUST ALWAYS BE USED IN VEHICLES THAT WERE ORIGINALLY FILLED
WITH ATF +4. USING ATF +3 IN THESE VEHICLES WILL DECREASE THE BENEFITS
OF THIS NEW FLUID.

AT THIS TIME, VEHICLES ORIGINALLY FILLED WITH ATF +2 OR ATF +3 SHOULD
CONTINUE TO BE SERVICED WITH ATF +3 - TYPE 7176. **VEHICLE SPECIFIC
TSB'S WILL BE ISSUED TO ANNOUNCE THE USE OF ATF +4 FOR EARLIER YEARS.**

The p/n for quarts of ATF +4 is 05013457AA. Following are the added
benefits of ATF +4:

RECOMMENDED SERVICE INTERVALS
a.. Normal Maintenance (Schedule A) - None (Fill For Life)
b.. Severe Maintenance (Schedule B) - Fluid/Filter 77,000 km (48,000 miles)

ADDITIONAL BENEFITS
a.. Better anti-wear properties
b.. Improved rust/corrosion prevention
c.. Controls oxidation
d.. Eliminates deposits
e.. Controls friction
f.. Retains anti-foaming properties
g.. Superior properties for low temperature operation

FLUID COLOR
a.. ATF +4 is red in color as previously used transmission fluid.
NOTE: THE RED DYE USED IN ATF +4 FLUID IS NOT A PERMANENT QUALITY. AS
FLUID AGES, IT CAN BECOME DARKER OR MAY EVEN APPEAR LIGHT BROWN.
DISCOLORATION ALONE DOES NOT INDICATE THE NEED FOR A FLUID CHANGE. IF
THE COLOR CHANGE IS ACCOMPANIED BY A BURNT SMELL AND/OR A DETERIORATION
IN SHIFT QUALITY, NEW FLUID MAY BE REQUIRED.

POLICY: Information Only

 

If you get ATF+4 for the same price or have too much money or working
with DC I take this for granted.

What sense does it make? Can you extend intervals?

 

In what you quoted, TSB 21-004-04 ends with "...PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty. Part No. Description...AR 05013457AA Fluid, Transmission, ATF+4®
(Type 9602),Quart". Everything after that, starting with "SUBJECT: New
Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage (ATF +4 Type 9602)...", is from an
earlier TSB and is not part of 21-004-04. I can see why someone would
be confused if that all was run together as one TSB.

The TSB says you can top of ATF+3 with ATF+4. Does that mean you can
add up to 1.2 qt.? 1 qt.? 5 qts.? In other words, are small amounts
of ATF+4 in with ATF+3 OK, but, say a 50-50 mix is not? They don't
explicitly say it, but the implication is that you can add any amount of
ATF+4 to one that can take ATF+4 but which still has ATF+3 in it. They
do say that you should not add ATF+3 to one that has ATF+4 in it
(implication being one that came with it from the factory). They aren't
real explicit, but I'd say that the TSB does not justify an order to
flush out any that had ATF+4 added on top of ATF+3. If that is indeed
necessary, then that is information beyond TSB 21-004-04. I can't help
but feel that someone in Europe is mis-intrerpreting the TSB (to have
the mixed fluid flushed out). Perhaps they are only seeing the two
TSB's run together and that is resulting in confusion and stupid
requirements to flush mixed fluids.

For reference, the FSM for my '99 Concorde (LH) with 42LE tranny in it
says the tranny fluid and filter are to be changed every 48k miles (75km).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')