Total Appeal

On the road now for quite some time, the 300C can still grab anyone’s
attention. The exterior styling has a macho presence that you have to
subjugate yourself before by driving an SUV or an 18-wheeler truck to
achieve. Unscientifically, some polls has indicated that most men
love the looks, the 300C can be comfortable as boulevard cruiser, but
equally as poised when the blacktop turns into a tight curve. One of
the first clues to this dual personality lies in the fact that the
300C is a rear-wheel drive sedan. Built on a DaimlerChrysler inspired
platform, the front engine-rear drive sedan shouts performance with
each press of the accelerator. Armed with a capable 3.5 liter V6
engine which pumps out 250 horsepower, it is then mated to a smooth
shifting, 5-speed automatic transmission with Chrysler’s AutoStick
that truly adds new meaning to the words “road trip”. To balance the
styling demeanor of the attention-grabbing exterior, the 300C’s two-
tone interior is very straight forward. Fit and finish is spot-on for
the price, and comparable to others in its class. As is the case with
most DaimlerChrysler vehicles, storage spaces abound. Cupholders and
compartments are more than capable of handling most everyday items,
and for those times when only a trunk will suffice, the 300C provides
with 15.6 cubic feet of storage. Like another paradigm-shifting
consumer product, the Apple iPod, the 300C stands out in a field of me-
too competitors as it has that certain “gotta have it” appeal.

 

auto parts view spewed:

Yes, I still get that queezy, nauseated feeling every time I see one.

Then I get that angry feeling towards those germans at Daimler for
fucking around and destroying Chrysler, and for killing the 300n Hemi
concept back in 2000 because I'd have one of those in my driveway by
now, instead of a 9 year old 300m.

And what the **** are you doing posting this shit from the Philippines?
You even got any Chrysler vehicles there?

Has Chrysler stooped to this - spammy product placement on usenet?

 

I am not sure there is a need for this xenophobic abuse. Even if it were
'product placement' Chrysler is the only company of the Detroit Three that
exports from North America in any quantity, probably because it does not
manufacture outside

As you know, GM and Ford have many plants around the world.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

 

I've stated my "criticism" of german Daimler management of Chrysler many
times here in the past, and I stand by it.

Chrysler's exports are a pittance. It's their achilles heel. Saying
that they export more than GM or Ford really isin't saying much.
There's too much protectionism and trade inequities in the global car
market, particularly with Japan and Korea.

Again, I fault Daimler for doing seemingly nothing to sell Chrysler
vehicles in Europe when they had the chance.

That looks like it will soon change. GM will be selling Saab, and also
possibly Opel and Vauxhall.

I still want to know the reason (who, why) for the first post in this
thread.

 

Legitimate criticism is, well, legitimate, but your indulgence in xenophobia
is uncalled for. I think your problem is that the management was not
American.

You seem to have little idea of what Chrysler was selling and what the
efforts were. There are dealerships, in Europe!

Or do you have figures?

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---
[...]

[...]

 

The fact that management was not American was actually Chrysler's
problem, and they are still living with the consequences.

--------------------------
Spurred by demand for new Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge products, Chrysler
achieved record sales outside North America in 2007, outselling any
previous year in the Company's history.

The highest volume markets outside North America were: Italy (21,361
units); Venezuela (19,459 units); and the United Kingdom (18,623 units).

Year-to-date sales increased 15 percent to 238,218 units from 2006
results of 206,925 units.
-------------------------

If Chrysler sold 238k vehicles outside of north america in 2007, then
where the hell were these vehicles sold?

Top 3 foreign countries add up to about 60k units, meaning 180k units
were sold in other countries, at a rate of under 18k per country. Those
are not huge numbers on a per-country basis. Where is western Europe or
Asia in these numbers? How many Chrysler vehicles were sold in Germany
in 2007? Why did Italy buy more Chrysler vehicles than Germany in 2007?

------------------------
Tue Apr 8, 2008

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS66742+08-Apr-2008+PRN20080408

European sales, which account for slightly more than half of Chrysler's
sales outside North America, increased four percent in the first quarter
2008. Italy is the highest volume market for Chrysler outside of North
America in 2008, with sales up 15 percent year-to-date to 6,170 units.
The U.K. market had its best first quarter Chrysler sales ever (5,609
units), an increase of
10 percent, and outsold all other markets during the month of March.
Russia is the company's highest-growth European market with sales up 94
percent year-to-date to 2,139 units, establishing a record in the market
for the best quarter ever.

In Asian markets, Chrysler's China sales more than doubled during
the first quarter of 2008 (4,839 units), the greatest percent increase
of any volume market in the world for the Company. The market nearly
quadrupled sales for the month (2,652 units) compared to March 2007.
Much of this growth can be attributed to incremental sales of the
locally-built Chrysler Sebring, which was launched last month and sold
over 1,000 units -- accounting for 22 percent of the market's first
quarter sales.

Jeep(R) and Dodge brand sales increased significantly through the
first quarter, with Jeep sales up 11 percent (22,699 units), and Dodge
sales up 46 percent (17,371 units). Chrysler brand sales decreased 15
percent (17,276 units), while sales of the new Chrysler Sebring Sedan
and Cabrio vehicles grew exponentially compared to the previous model.
For the first three months of this year, sales for the Chrysler Sebring
(nearly 3,000 units) increased four and half times the sales volume
reached by the previous model. The top selling model for Chrysler
outside North America in the first quarter is the fuel-efficient,
C-segment vehicle -- Dodge Caliber.
-------------------------

These are small numbers.

Does anyone know what the european sales numbers were for the 300m,
300/300c, Pacifica, PT Cruiser, Magnum and Charger during the years 2000
to present?

 

This explains the plans for some sort of collaboration between Chrysler
and Fiat.

Does anyone know exactly what Chrysler is getting out of such a deal?
They're giving Fiat a piece of Chrysler, in return for exactly - what?

 

Chrysler sold 8% of its cars outside North America, with 4% in western
Europe.

Access to Fiat's small car platforms (and presumably engines too,
especially small diesel engines). Chrysler has nothing competitive
with cars like Golf, Civic, etc.

 

The future of small cars in USA / Canada is not diesel.

The future for a lot of Americans and Canadians probably is small cars,
but those cars don't have to be diesel, and many people probably
wouldn't choose diesel over gasoline.

Why?

Because when diesel costs quite a bit more than gasoline, because when
there have already been shortages of diesel fuel in several markets this
past year, because when many gas stations don't even sell diesel fuel,
that's why people are not and will not be fond of diesel.

 

Like another paradigm-shifting consumer product, the Apple iPod,
Oh sure. It's one ugly car.
When I told my brother in law I got a lovely 300M, he confused it with
the 300 and said "how could you buy that thing I can't stand to look at".
Actually he was misled by a dumb web site that showed a 300 as a 300M.

One day a 300C parked beside my oldie '95 Concorde.
One guess which one looked MUCH nicer.

 

In which countries? Or just US?

The one issue which has arisen is the price of diesel (pre-tax). In the old
days when diesel was a small percentage it was, in effect, a byproduct of
petrol refining and so could be sold at a low marginal price.

However, as diesel's popularity rose the demand became greater that its
'normal' refining fraction. Therefore it now has to bear a greater share of
production costs, raising its relative price. Personally I would not buy a
diesel as I only do about 4000 miles a year, but at over 15 000 miles or so
it becomes rationally viable in the UK.

Of course in some European countries the retail price is distorted by
taxation policies, though for private users the low diesel price might be
made up by other taxes on privately-used cars.

DAS

 

At last, some good figures. Unit sales in Europe are a bit lower than I
expected but, given the lack of mass appeal, that's not too bad. And I
suggest that a reason why Italy ranks up there is because Italians abandoned
Fiat on various grounds until fairly recently.

Pacifica, Magnum and Charger are not sold here in any big numbers, AFAIK.

In UK the Jeep is lower-price competition for the Range Rover.

As regards your question about low sales in Germany, see previous comments
about lack of mass appeal. Plus, VW, Mercedes and BMW dominate the market.
In the UK the Ford Focus (and Escourt before that) is the top-selling car
for years. Not in Germany. If I want a Golf or medium-Audi-like car and
pay less I can buy a SEAT or Skoda.

And frankly, if I can buy a quality car from the above-named, why should I
buy a Chrysler unless I am looking for a niche product?

And if I want something that not everyone has I can buy a PSA and Renault
(French) and Fiat (Italian). Honda has been producing attractive cars for
years.

And in France they tend to buy PSA and Renault, or VW...

(PSA = Peugeot Societe Anonyme/Peugeot-Citroen 'Inc'.)

You can ask the same question about Japanese cars. They sell (or used to
sell) far better in the UK than in Germany.

The situation is fairly complicated, has much to do with history and local
cultural reasons and has little to do with foreign management of Chrysler.

Why not look at the UK. We used to have a large British-owned car industry
and people took a somewhat jingoistic view about 'buying British'. With
time the definition of 'British' evolved to include, for example, Ford.
Now, who cares?

The 'British' car industry 'died' yet car output reached historically high
levels until fairly recently. IIRC the British Toyota plant is among the
most efficient in its network.

As discussed elsewhere, R&D is done in many places and Britain is the global
centre of high-tech car design and construction, and that includes Indy 500
vehicles. Even the Mercedes McLaren SLR is produced in southern England.

So just grit your teeth and understand the shape of the car industry is
changing. People have to stop whining and work within the global trends.

I mourn the passing of Britain's manufacturing base but there is still a lot
of added-value being produced in the UK and there may still be a turnaround
with new products and new technologies. The old 'smokestack' stuff with
bolshy and inflexible unions has largely gone. In fact, analysis shows that
Britain still has a decent share of global manufacturing, even if not as
high as before.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---

 

Dori A Schmetterling wrote:

Please quote in-line. It is more readable. Watch:

US and Canada.

Many inner-city and some urban gas stations don't sell diesel, and those
that do have 1 diesel pump for every 7 or 9 gasoline pumps.

The larger stations, located on (or near) highway access ramps, will
have many diesel pumps, but mostly for large trucks and commercial
vehicles.

It's the demand, more than a shell game with refining costs. When you
look at how manufacturing has changed in US/Canada over the past 10
years, you have a lot plant closings in favor of fewer, but more
centralized plants. That increases the demand for long-haul shipping,
which is done mostly by trucks.

Any advantage diesel has in distance or milage economy over gasoline has
been completely erased because of it's increased cost at the pump. At
the peak prices last summer, diesel cost a dollar a gallon more than
gasoline in the US. I believe that truck drivers held massive protests
in Europe last summer over high diesel costs.

And there have been complete diesel shortages in some urban areas here
in north america over the past year. Most notably in Calgary - which
ironically is Canada's oil capitol.

We (or I) have the impression that european car drivers have a real
hang-up over gasoline car engines and they have this myopic mindset that
any car (small or large) that runs on gasoline is strange or freaky.

Well you must be paying less for diesel in the UK compared to gasoline
(petrol). But over here, you'll be paying 15 to 25% more for diesel vs
low-octane gasoline.

The other problem with diesel is that we have high-sulphur crude oil and
many car companies say they've done as much as they can as far as clean
emissions go and that the refineries must do more to clean up the
refined fuels that the cars are using. But even still, gasoline burns
cleaner than diesel.

 

Normally I leave only the bit/s I am addressing.

On this occasion I will comment in-line, even though it means scrolling
through lots of guff.

DAS
--
To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---

DAS: No such problem in Europe. Can't speak about Middle East (which has
lots of diesels) or Asia, but I would be surprised it's any different.

DAS: Yes, demand, but the amount of cost you allocate depends on relative
demand. If you run a refinery to produce a smaller fraction of its output
the resulting product costs a lot more, Diesel used to by just a
'byproduct' so could be sold cheaply.

DAS: I don't understand what you are saying with "diesel cost a dollar a
gallon more than

Yes, there were lorry-driver protests in the UK but that also had to do with
the relative price of diesel in the UK v other places and the disadvantage
at which it put UK commercial operators.

DAS: Some people probably do, especially in the UK where diesel is dearer
than petrol and diesel cars getting increasingly popular (though starting
from a low base). Many car reviews here draw attention to the fact that
break-even is at about 15K miles or so, so for less one should buy the
petrol version.

DAS: How did you work that out? At high mileages the better mpg of diesel
becomes noticeable.

DAS: I am aware of that, but I thought I read in this NG or another similar
one that low-sulphur diesel is available, or about to be available,
nationwide in the US.

 

PS. The lorry drivers' protest was also related to the planned
implementation of a tax increase following substantial price increases.

DAS

[...]

[...]

 

From my experience with a Magnum I can assure the 300 doesn't track or
corner as well as Chryslers mid sized FWD cars. That's on dry summer
roads, I wouldn't even try the 300 on snow covered roads, in fact few do
based on their absence at our ski hills.
I have a 300M with that same great 3.5L engine and a 4 spd, IMO the best
road car I've ever driven, far superior to the Magnum. The much higher
weight of the 300 would certainly slow the 300 down by comparison.
Another 300 negative is the very poor visibility out of those shallow
windows, it takes me back to the cars of the 30/40s.

 

(still remind everyone of a mid 1980's Bentley)

Even though I agree with your comments (I too have a 300m), you're
wasting your time replying to a phantom, spammy post.

The OP (who posted it from the Philippines) has not returned to
participate in this thread, and nobody here has speculated as to who, or
why, it was posted in the first place.

 

We are all replying to each other, just as I reacted to you at the top even
though I myself wondered about the genuineness of the OP...

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---