The Drive-a-Toyota Act

In general hybrid use a small engine to move the vehicle when not much
torques is required and to generate electricity when required. The electric
motor is used when torque is required to get the vehicle going and to keep
it going on a grade.

We hear of the great mileage while driving at slower speeds in a hybrid but
one can not continue to do so for long before the engine will need to run to
recharge the batteries,
provide heat and AC

Seems to me we should be looking to improve the newer technology, that
permits several of the cylinders to be disengaged when torque is not
required. That is a better solution to lowering ones average fuel
consumption since the majority is mileage is accumulated
where torque is not required.

Several manufacturers are offing that technology and obtaining well over 30
mpg, with V8 engines, on the highway and still offering the larger, safer,
more powerful vehicles that the buyers prefer. Cylinder deactivation does
not add much to the price of the vehicle as apposed to hybrids that cost
much more to build and add to the wealth of batteries to be build and
recycled.

mike

 

One should know by now that our fried Jeff likes prefers others do his
homework.

mike

 

I have to disagree with you on this one.

To me, it seems that no running an engine at its most efficient speeds,
as the hybrids do, and storing energy as electricity and using that in
such a way the efficiency is maximized will make a better combination
than cutting off cylinders.

Even buses in NYC use hybrid technology rather than disengaging
cylinders (or in addition to it). And the Swedes are working on hybrid
garbage trucks.

Plus, but using a hybrid design, you can have a smaller and lighter
engine than with an engine that has a variable number of cylinders. Of
course, the technologies are not mutually incompatible.

What manufacturer offers a V8 that gets well over 30 mpg?

OK, some V8 get close to 30 mpg highway, but none get even 30 mpg
highway, at least in the 2007 or 2008 model years:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2007.pdf
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2008.pdf

It's a trade-off. Some people prefer a bigger car, some prefer one with
a smaller environmental footprint, which hybrids may or may not have (I
haven't seen a good accounting of the environmental costs of the
batteries and other technology).

Jeff

 

Sorry, but if one makes a claim, it is up to the one making the claim to
support it, not me.

Expecting one to support his own claims is not the same as not doing my
homework.

Jeff

 

"Bill Putney" ...

Hi Bill,
The thing with the Prius is that it generates more energy than it uses
electrically, overall. There is a screen that shows the state of the
battery charge at all times. In my Prius, it is near the top most of the
time (at maybe ~60-70% of charge [the top being 80% and the bottom being
20%]), and I have seen it near the low point only in rare and special
cases (such as using the AC in a traffic jam where regeneration is not
happening), It even has a mode where it will just spin the engine
(without any gas used) to get rid of excess electricity as waste heat. I
have wanted some manner of adjustment to make it use electricity moreso
because of this.
Tomes

 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" om...

My experience is a bit different in this traffic jam crawl on a hot day
scenario. The battery will run down after a while, and then the ICE comes
on to provide recharge. This does indeed sap gas, and we have seen our
MPG dive under this situation.
Tomes

 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" ...

Yep, agree with all of this. These new transmissions are indeed
transmissions in that they transmit power from the power source(s) to the
wheels. We are just now getting used to the all new stuff that we never
had to consider in production cars before. Sure is fun.
Tomes

 

That may be your opinion, but if you think you are correct you had better
notify the IRS. There is no listing of any Toyota holding company paying
any corporate taxes, on the IRS wed site. LOL

mike

 

Can you please tell us the location of the IRS website that lists which
companies pay taxes?

I haven't found one that lists the taxes that corporations pay or even
one the lists all the corporate tax payers.

JEff

 

You are free to believe whatever you choose. A modern V8 will run quite
efficiently at
1,500 RPMs, even on four cylinders, at 60 MPH. Most 4 cy engines need to
run at nearly twice that number of RPMs at 60 MPH.

You are confusing EPA test highway figures with what I actually said. ANY
car will get better than the EPA figure, driven strictly at speed on the
highway. The average is three to four MPG. My V6 Lincoln Zephyr with a
fuel computer and six speed double OD tranny, had an EPA mileage of 29 but
will constantly do 34/35 at 1,700 RPMs at 60 MPH on a flat road.

mike

 

You make lots of counter claims that you do not back up LOL

mike

 

I put the traditional CVT on par with the traditional fluid drive
automatic transmission with respect to complexity and number of failure
points, as well as its proclivity to fail.[/QUOTE]
Don't mention "Fluid Drive" as prone to failure. My 1940 Chrysler has
it and it is bulletproof! That was perhaps the best transmission
produced.

 

Yet the 4 cyl cars get a lot better fuel mileage. Go figure.

That's true of any engine, regardless of whether it is 4, 6 or 8 cylinders.

The V8 with the highest highway estimate has 28 mpg highway, which comes
to 32 mpg highway. That is not what I would call well over 30 mpg,
especially when one has to get to the highway and frequently travels at
slower speeds, especially around construction sites.

So that just means that the smaller engines are even more efficient at
highway speeds.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that the most efficient
vehicles available today in the US are hybrid vehicles with small
engines (1.5 liter).

Jeff

 

Don't mention "Fluid Drive" as prone to failure. My 1940 Chrysler has
it and it is bulletproof! That was perhaps the best transmission
produced.[/QUOTE]

One single datum point does not prove anything.

Modern fluid drive automatic transmissions, especially from the likes of
Chrysler, are junk waiting to burst into pieces at any moment.

Even Honda can't get them right.

 

Oops - yes - thanks. Got in a hurry just before going to work.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

OK - makes sense.

Assuming you're not meaning strictly the regenerative braking, can you
explain what you mean? You're saying that the mechanism it uses to
convert mechanical energy into electrical energy is more efficient than
the alternator (the auto mfgrs. are back to calling them generators now)
in a traditional car? How is it done?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Is your last name O'Shaughnessy, by chance? At VA Tech, there is a
dormitory named O'Shaughnessy - everyone has always called it
O'Shagnasty. Oh those crazy college kids!

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

A generator converts mechanical energy to DC current, not A/C current.
Because Toyota is so concerned with efficiency with the Prius, having an
efficient generator system must have been a priority. And the output
doesn't have to be converted to D/C with a rectifier. There's power loss
in the rectifier. (All automotive alternators have them.)

Plus, the drive to the generators is direct drive, not belt drive
driven, so there is less friction loss with a generator than a belt-drive.

It is also inherently more efficient to drive these things from
electricity than directly from belts, because they run at the proper
speed, not a speed determined by the engine. Plus, you don't need to run
the engine to run the A/C or other things, which saves on fuel (although
you need to run the engine every now and then to recharge the batteries
or otherwise recharge the batteries) and you can use regenerative
braking to recharge the batteries.

SO there are a whole bunch of reasons why it is better to run these
things off of electricity, not just one.

Jeff

 

Assuming you're not meaning strictly the regenerative braking, can you
explain what you mean? You're saying that the mechanism it uses to
convert mechanical energy into electrical energy is more efficient than
the alternator (the auto mfgrs. are back to calling them generators now)
in a traditional car? How is it done?[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily--but the fact that the engine isn't directly driving the
AC compressor means that the engine can shut off, or run at its peak
efficiency as needed to charge the battery. This saves bunches of gas
and keeps a huge amount of pollutants out of the air. The battery can
then dole out whatever energy it needs to whatever system demands it at
any given moment.

Shoot, every car could learn from Toyota's systems.

The beauty of Toyota's HSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive) is, in typical
Japanese fashion, at many levels. The software controlling the battery
to dole out energy means the engine can be responsible for, and tuned
for, one task: keep the battery charged. The engine doesn't have to
run as much at incredibly inefficient levels, such as when idling for
the sole purpose of running the AC or the radio or other electrical
systems.

With those electric motors there to help with low end grunt and getting
the car moving, the engine can be tuned more specifically for running at
certain efficient speeds.

True, the engine does mechanically drive things quite a bit of the time,
and always over 42mph. But it does so with varying involvement, with
the software determining how much engine output goes to the wheels and
how much goes back to the battery. That's the purpose of the Power
Split Device (PSD) and the two motor/generators: to decouple the engine
and allow varying amounts of engine power to go to various duties.

Decoupling the engine from the wheels like the PSD does is freaking
genius. Toyota got two motor/generators and power delivery out of a
very small and lightweight device, which is incredibly less complex than
a modern automatic transmission.

Also, they programmed the brakes to be by wire. That's right, the brake
pedal tells the computer what you want to do. Down to 7mph, the
generators do the braking. The result: brakes last forever. Yes, the
software has panic stops programmed for, and the car has a brake
pressure accumulator (one of the many little noises you hear) that is
always at the ready to slam the mechanical brakes for a panic stop.

http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/prius-technical-info

 

I always thought electric motors would make AWD very simple.