The Drive-a-Toyota Act

I am not sure that is true. Cars are not trains. Care to cite some
numbers to prove this?

Ed

 

The original Japan-only NHW10 Prius used the cylindrical cells (like
the D-cells), but beginning with the NHW11 Prius (2001 model year in
the US) they started to use the prismatic (rectangular) cells. I
think the Honda Insight and perhaps the HCH used the cylindrical cells
as well.

I believe that Ford uses hybrid batteries made by Sanyo, while Toyota
and Honda use hybrid batteries from Panasonic EV.
http://www.peve.jp/e/shouhin.html

 

You are correct, Sir! It is, however, bulletproof, requiring only the
fluid change. It is not bad off the mark, but with the technology of
the day, it was pretty good. I get about 21 mpg with it and the 108hp
six. Remember, back in 1940, cars were more sedate in their
acceleration.

 

Yeah, but they won't give us that because it just makes too much
damned sense. Not to mention KILLS EVERYTHING on gas mileage..

 

Let's say someone buys the car used after 5 years and the battery
immediately fails. Is the warranty going to cover the new owner?

The last time I bought a battery for my 1979 Celica, it was a generic
Advance Auto cheapie battery. It was a 24 month battery, but it is
still good. It cost about $60. The toyota cost me $400 from Ebay,
$140 in diesel fuel to drive 1000 miles round trip to get it (it was
in 2000), and $50 for an "in-town" trailer rental..

Once I got the car, I found that the motor needed freshening. I put ~
$800 into the motor and parts for it. I have had to spend $450 on six
tires so far. Replaced the brake master cylinder ($40 ebay), the
clutch master ($25 ebay), the transmission (brother ran it out of
fluid) with one from another parts car (labor only). Replaced the
pitman arm ($30 ebay) and the idler arm ($25 ebay).

Total that and it's $2020. I have no idea what i've spent on gas
over the last 45,000 miles I've put on it in the last 5 years (didn't
drive it for two when i first had it), but around town it gets around
18 - 20 mpg and on the road it gets 28 - 30 mpg at 75 - 80 mph all day
long.

I can't understand why someone would *want* a new car..
Let's just say all those miles were in town, getting 20 mpg, with gas
at $3,00 per gallon. (although i know that more than half of the miles
were highway and significantly LESS than $3,00 a gallon)
45,000 / 20 = 2250 gallons.
2250 * 3 = $6750

$6750 + $2020 = $8770

45,000 miles / $8770 = ~ 5.13 cents per mile.

Now *THAT* is what I call an economy car. I challenge *anyone* with a
new car to come up with an operating cost that low.

Stick that in your tailpipe and smoke it.

 

Well before anyone says anything about my poor math skills I want to
correct myself.. I had the divisor and dividend reversed.. argh.. I
feel like a moron! LOL
Ok it should have been..

$8770 / 45000 = approx 19.5 cents per mile.

actually not nearly as great as i was thinking, but still much better
than buying a new car... LOL

 

It's NOT reasonable to sell/trade any car *just* to get better mileage
with a new car. Even factoring in the green effect, the resources that
went into building the new car offset any/all overall $$$/pollution
savings possible. But if you're going to sell/trade anyway, then take
those considerations into effect.

 

For car, gas, and parts. Pretty good. I agree, there are MANY ways to
cut your transportation costs--and it starts with not participating in
the great marketing game that is the car sales game, where they make you
think you NEED all the new goodies.

I came into a 94 Lexus ES, free, with a newly rebuilt transmission.
124K on the clock. I register and insure it, put gas in it, and pay for
repairs and maintenance. I've had a few repairs over the last 50K
miles, but nothing outlandish. And every time I drive it, I get a big
grin on my face--knowing that it's paid for and is relatively
inexpensive to drive, AND is very comfortable with cold air and a smooth
ride.

A brand new car with all the goodies is one way to put a grin on your
face, but so is a paid-for car that doesn't let you down. The world is
full of ways to make you smile.

OK, so let's do your calculation on a new car. I also have a company
car, for which the annualized lease value is $5850, or $487.50/month.
It gets about 44mpg overall, and gas is $3.00. Over the last 4.5 months
I've put 8000 miles on it. Let's do the math.

4.5 months at $487.50/month is $2193.75. At 44mpg overall, those 8000
miles have caused 182 gallons of gas to be burned, or $546 to be spent
at that same $3.00/gallon figure you used. Obviously, the car has had
no repairs. Oh, but it's had an oil change, call it $30.

$2193.75 plus $546 plus $30 is $2769.75. That divided by 8000 is 34.62
cents/mile to operate the car so far. Yours costs 15 cents/mile less to
operate.

At 60mph, both of us traveling side by side, your meter clicks 15
cents/minute to the good, or $9/hour (freeway) that you don't spend
compared to buying new.

The one tradeoff between my new car and your 79 Celica is that your car
is much more likely to die a sudden horrible death at any time, and/or
strand you at the wrong time. It is also significantly less safe in a
wreck, but you don't plan on wrecking it. Nonetheless, there are plenty
of uninsured, unlicensed, very bad drivers out there...

For the record: I jumped on the company car thing because it's an
incredible savings to me to do that, even compared to my own Lexus.

 

For US Toyotas, the hybrid battery is covered under the hybrid vehicle
system warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles, or if in a CA-emissions
state (and a AT-PZEV version) by the longer CA emissions warranty for
10 years/150,000 miles. These warranties stay with the vehicle (like
the basic new car warranty and powertrain warranty) and transfer to
the new owner, and are NOT pro-rated.

Now, the 12v lead-acid traditional accessory battery, however...
That's usually considered a maintenance item in any car (Toyotas
included), so you may need to replace that after 5 years. Because of
the special size/posts of the AGM 12v in my 2001 Prius, to get a new
12v from the Toyota dealer last year, along with the setting kit and
labor costs, it sadly was in the $300 range. I was too lazy to go for
a cheaper route: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius/links/Replacement_12V_Clas_001072738257/

 

Picking at non-existent nits, making guesses?
Ford says:
"the warranty is fully transferable to future owners at no cost."

I think the same way about the hybrid battery. I probably wouldn't buy a
dealer-supplied battery pack. I wouldn't buy cheap... Kragen pro-rated
batteries seem like more of a subscription to keep you tied to Kragen than
a good deal, but I see no need to buy a battery from a dealer.

Well, there you go. 1979? No thanks. I didn't like them in 1979.

Someone pointed out to me that their 92 Escort gets 40+mpg "all day long".
(That phrase pops up a lot in unsubstantiated conversations.) Someone
else at the table noted that their 92 Escort had seen 40 once or twice, but
was typically 35-37 on the highway, and less than that around here. The
conversation drifted off before I could ask if the Escort had an automatic
or a five speed, A/C, maybe power steering. Does it have enough power to
get out of its own way going up hill?

 

For me, that is a four year warranty. Not much of an incentive for me.
For my wife, it would run the full term.

 

I had a '91 4 door Mazda Protege sedan, the 16 valve version of the
Escort, with a 5 speed that DID get 39 MPG "all day long". That car
is a frequent topic of discussion between my wife and I when ads brag
about 30 MPG.

FWIW, it actually was a lot of fun to drive all 130,000 miles we put
on it, and most definitely did get out of it's own way throughout New
England.

My Protege was a light and basic car, with only one airbag,
non-powered locks, and windows, no ABS or traction control, a basic
radio, etc... It did have A/C and power rack and pinion steering. I
thought it drove great in sun, snow and rain, and was a great value @
$9100, new.

 

I had a '91 4 door Mazda Protege sedan, the 16 valve version of the
Escort, with a 5 speed that DID get 39 MPG "all day long". That car
is a frequent topic of discussion between my wife and I when ads brag
about 30 MPG.

FWIW, it actually was a lot of fun to drive all 130,000 miles we put
on it, and most definitely did get out of it's own way throughout New
England.

My Protege was a light and basic car, with only one airbag,
non-powered locks, and windows, no ABS or traction control, a basic
radio, etc...[/QUOTE]

And that's the whole point.

I had a 92 Civic Si that could get 41mpg on the highway. Lightweight.
But all the safety features are heavy and cost fuel to drag around. The
world is a WAY different place than it was 25 years ago.

 

I didn't think it NEEDED traction control or ABS. In fact, I've never
owned a vehicle with traction control, but I hated the one my employer
provided to me. My '99 Jeep doesn't have ABS, and I don't see the big
deal in my '01 Outback or my '095 Tacoma.

But then again, I can drive, and I know what it means to adjust one's
speed to conditions. I slow down when it gets slippery! <G>

 

ok, sounds reasonable

well if kragen is the "advance" brand... a two year battery has lasted
5 years.. so.. guess i'll stay tied to the product.

honestly, the year is irrelevant. I didn't particularly care for the
"decor" of the 79 celica when i first acquired the thing, but now it
doesn't bother me.. It's merely a way to get from tab A to slot B.

well, i'm not claiming any astronomical mpg.. 28-30 is what i get on
I-95 over a 400 mile stretch of highway at 75 mph.. granted, it gets
less when i have to get off for food or "rest" stops.. The car has a
2-bbl carburetor, manual steering, no a/c. Five speed manual. The
trans is from an '83 celica which has a much higher overdrive than the
original transmission. The car could not originally boast 28-30
mpg.

As for getting out of its own way.. it will do that at low speeds as
well as speeds that are fast enough to be unsafe in any car when
driven by the incorrect driver. You can't carry 1000 pounds in the
rear of it, but you can carry a good 500 without too much reduction in
gas mileage or uphill ability. As I remember reading, the ww2 jeeps
for the gummint needed to carry two dudes and 500 lbs of gear..

 

But that is not true of all warranties. When you have your car fixed,
often the warranty on the parts says, "... as long as you own your car."
Warranty doesn't transfer to new owners.

Hyundai dealers in Northeast PA and possibly other places are doubling
the manufacturer's 10 yr/100,000 mi warranty. But the doubled warranty
(actually an insurance policy that the dealer buys) only covers the
original owner. Likewise, Chrysler has a lifetime powertrain warranty
(after the 5/60 warranty expires) This warranty only covers the original
owner.

Jeff

 

But we can't discuss all of them here.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

So - is that the way everything is on the Prius - things they could just
as easily have made standard and relatively inexpensive to replace they
made odd to force the owner to buy a part that's 5 times what it should
cost or have to do some ridiculous work-around to use standard parts
that do the job just as well? Not a good philosophy, but if one is
determined to "save the earth", I guess it's the kind of thing you have
to allow yourself to get suckered into.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

You are the illogical reader that's blind to the big picture. The
Prius costs thousands of dollars more comparable non-hybrid autos its
size. If Congress forces such high fuel mileage ratings on the entire
fleet of new cars (large and small), the hybrid version of the Chevy
Silverado will cost thousands of dollars more the non-hybrid Chevy
Silverado.

The bottom line is this. Almost everyone is for lower cost energy
supplies with a smaller CO2 footprint. But, we will never get
something from nothing no matter how hard we wish upon a star with
federal government decrees. The Europeans and especially the Japanese
have been producing high fuel mileage cars for many years thanks to
sky high fuel taxes. In the short term, the most efficient means of
achieving a higher fuel mileage is to pass a large fuel tax and then
let the free market decide the rest. In the long term, the most
efficient means of lowering energy cost and CO2 footprint is basic
research on battery technology, solar, etc. paid for my the United
States federal government.

Blind, politically motivated, federal decrees requiring higher fuel
mileage will only decimate the American auto industry.

 

Lets compare apple to apples. The Camry is a bigger car than the
Prius.