The Drive-a-Toyota Act

Wall Street Journal

"...this [CAFE] debate is a test of who has more clout in today's
Democratic Congress -- the men and women who work in American
factories, or the affluent greens on both coasts who can afford to pay
a premium to own a Prius to indulge their concern about global warming."

complete article: http://curio.us/8h

 

Yeah, that's bad, considering the Prius is a very cheap car. They should
look at facts in these cases, that way everybody doesn't think morons are
writing for the wall street journal..

Most of the people I know drive something like a Chevy Silverado that costs
as much as 2 Priuses.

 

The Camry is the best selling car in the U.S., right? Yet it costs a little
less, as much as, or more than a Prius, depending on the pkg. the Prius
comes with, & the model of the Camry. So... IMO, that theory sort of goes
down the drain...

Cathy

 

....because those other vehicles are a better value over their useful lives.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Actually a base Camry costs a lot less than a Prius and is a much
roomier car with better performance (and decent fuel economy too). If
you are talking strictly economics, a Corolla is a much better buy. If
you are trying to impress your neighbors with your "green-ness" then
the Prius is the way to go. I don't agree with the Wall Street Journal
on this, but I think if you check the demographics of who is buying
Priuses (?), you will find that they are overwhelmingly purchased by
upper middle class Americans.

Ed

 

...because those other vehicles are a better value over their useful lives.[/QUOTE]

How so?

 

How so?[/QUOTE]

I just bought a new Corolla (5-speed) that gets 32-41 mpg and I paid
$14,400 on the road for it. I couldn't have gotten nearly the same
discount on a Prius (msrp $22,175)) and at current gas prices the Prius
wouldn't save the equivalent cost in gas to make up the difference in
price over their useful lives.

I can't say that about the Silverado, but I also know you can't haul 55
10 ft. 2X4's in a Prius.

I'm all about reducing the amount of oil we import, but the hybrid is a
poor solution to our problem of reliance on foreign energy sources.

 

But, the cars have different options. A better comparison might have
been comparing a Camry and Prius.

It is easier to compare the Honda Civic and Honda Civic Hybrid.

Jeff

 

Why not a Camry and a Camry Hybrid?

Ed

 

I forgot they made one.

The Camry Hybrid and Camry XLE seem pretty comparable in price and
options, if you go with CVT with both.

The XLE with the most expensive package is about $2k less than the
Hybrid with the most expensive package or about 5% or 6% of the cost of
the vehicle.

That works comparing the top of the line vehicles, but if you don't want
all those options, you're still stuck buying a lot of them with the hybrid.

Jeff

 

I wasn't thinking about options, I was thinking about size. A Camry is a
bigger car than a Prius, so I don't think that's a valid comparison.

More to the point-- I would never consider buying a Camry when I can get
a more economical car that serves my needs and gets better mileage. I
couldn't have gotten any new Camry for under $15K new.

 

You will be interested in this article from the UK

http://tinyurl.com/2szf56

 

Or the morons that pay $6,000 more, for a similar size car like a Corolla,
to save a relative few hundred dollars a year on fuel, then need to spend a
small fortune at some point to replace the battery pack so they can sell or
trade the Pruis.

mike

 

The very same smart Americans that trade their new car on another new car in
three to four years, with 30K to 45K on the clock, yet pay a premium price
that will buy ALL of the fuel for a Corolla for three or four years LOL

mike

 

According to "Automotive News" Honda may not offer the Civic hybrid in 2008.
It is more apparent to Honda customers, unlike Toyota buys how do not thing
to compare the Pruis to the Corolla, that the hybrid is not worth the
premium price charged by dealers

mike

 

Do you think Toyota buyers would pay the 35K or more price of a Camry
hybrid?

mike

 

I just checked the Toyota's site: the hybrid battery's warranty is for 8
years/100K miles. I tend to keep my cars a while, & the longest I've ever
kept one has been 8 years, the shortest was 4, and usually it's 6 years. I
personally wouldn't even begin to factor in the possible eventual cost of a
new battery when deciding on purchasing a hybrid.

Cathy

 

The list price of a Camry hybrid is about $33K with the most expensive
package. The list price of a Camry V6 with the CVT with the most
expensive package is also in the same neighborhood.

Jeff

 

Based on an older post:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/2007_Prius/message/8468
and using US figures

2007 Prius: http://www.toyota.com/prius/specs.html
2007 Camry and Camry Hybrid: http://www.toyota.com/camry/specs.html
2007 Corolla: http://www.toyota.com/corolla/specs.html

I'm not quite sure why you are comparing the Prius with the
Corolla...
The Prius is a mid-size, and the Corolla is a compact. A better
comparison is to the mid-size Camry. And the EPA tests are
standardized, so you should use the same tests for comparason (city to
city or highway to highway or combined to combined).

Car Sum (interior+cargo volume) Diff to Prius
---------------------------------------------
Prius 110.6 (96.2+14.4) +0.0
Camry 116.4 (101.4+15.0) +5.8
CamryH 112.0 (101.4+10.6) +1.4
Corolla 103.9 (90.3+13.6) -6.7
all listings in cu. ft.

EPA MPG
Car City Highway
-----------------------
Prius 60 51
Camry 24 33
CamryH 40 38
Corolla 30 38

150,000 EPA miles, @ $3/gallon:
Prius @ 60MPG (city): 2500 gallons, $7500
Camry @ 24MPG (city): 6250 gallons, $18750, diff +$11250 to Prius
CamryH @ 40MPG (city): 3750 gallons, $11250, diff +$3750 to Prius
Corolla @ 30MPG (city): 5000 gallons, $15000, diff +$7500 to Prius
Prius @ 51MPG (highway): 2941 gallons, $8824
Camry @ 33MPG (highway): 4545 gallons, $13625, $4811 diff to Prius
CamryH @ 38MPG (highway): 3947 gallons, $11842, $3018 diff to Prius
Corolla @ 38MPG (highway): 3947 gallons, $11842, $3018 diff to Prius

But since you are comparing to a Corolla, we should use an accurate
comparison of the Prius and the Corolla, which means comparible
options. Since the Prius is an automatic (eCVT) v4 engine (MSRP
$22795 including the $620 Delivery, Processing, and Handling fee),
I'll use automatic Corolla LE (v4 engine) (MSRP $17035 with same $620
DPH fee).

Then start adding in options. It looks like a number are standard
between the Corolla LE and the Prius: Power Windows, Power Door Locks,
Engine Immobilizer, Power Side Mirrors (Prius' is heated too), AC,
Remote Keyless Entry, 6 Speaker AM/FM/CD, Tilt Steering Wheel, and
Dual front airbags.

The Prius also includes ABS with tire pressure monitors, Traction
Control, Cruise Control, side and curtain air bags, a Rear Spoiler
(it's small, but it's there,) and Alloy wheels, which the Corolla LE
doesn't have standard, but available as options. ABS/tire pressure
monitor/traction control is package AB (MSRP $390), Cruise contol is
only available in the audio value package VV (MSRP $200) (this will
replace the Corolla's AM/FM/CD with a AM/FM/6 disc CD (same speakers)
so we add $589 for a 6-disc CD changer accessory to the Prius (which
then has a 7- disc CD capacity fyi)). Rear Spoiler accessory RF for
the Corolla is $425, and Alloy Wheels are package AW (accessory price
$499, package MSRP $390). The side airbags is package BE (MSRP
$655). To summarize, 390+200+425+390+655 = $2060 to add to the
Corolla to make it comparable to the Prius, while adding $589 to make
it comparable to the Corolla.

So that's 17035+2060 = $19095 for the Corolla LE w/ the appropriate
options and accessories. The Prius with the 6-disc changer is
22795+589 = $23384. The difference in MSRP is $4289 more for the
Prius than the Corolla.

Now, there's also tax incentives for the Prius. The US Federal
Income
tax Hybrid Credit comes into effect, which for the 2007 Prius
purchased now through September 31, 2007 is $787.50.
http://www.toyota.com/prius/tax.html
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=157557,00.html

There's also state incentives, depending on where you live (CO gives
a
$3,013 credit for a 2007 Prius (see http://www.revenue.state.co.us/fyi/html/income09.html
), for instance), but I'll ignore those state incentives for now
since
it's location dependent.

So with the current $787.50 Fed income tax credit as stated above,
the
price difference drops from $4289 to $3501.50.

So, if you always drove your car according to the EPA highway test
cycle, and gasoline was a stagnant $3/gallon over the time it takes
you to drive 150,000 miles, and you purchased a vehicle today, and
ignoring sales or excise taxes (based on the vehicle price): To
purchase the Prius you'd spend $3601.50 more than on the comparable
Corolla LE, but after 150,000 highway miles you'd spend $3018 more on
the Corolla LE than on the Prius.

So, just comparing similar vehicles MSRP with their expected fuel
use,
you'd pay $483.50 more for the comparable 2007 Corolla LE than for the
2007 Prius.

YMMV with state incentives of course. Also, for really calculating
ROI on a vehicle (not just purchase price and gasoline cost), you'd
need to calculate the different cost for maintenance, insurance, and
the big one: depreciation, which definitely makes the Prius even more
attractive.


See also:
http://www.intellichoice.com/press/Hybrid-Survey-2006
http://www.intellichoice.com/carBuying101/HypeOverHybrids
http://www.kbb.com/kbb/Advice/Gener...eName=KbbWebContent:912&linkId=hp_resale_text

 

giant snip

Yes, but you're not listening to me. I didn't buy a Corolla LE for 19K.
I bought a Corolla CE for 14.4K. I don't care about an apples-to-apples
comparison of similar features, since I do not desire to purchase a car
with any of those features. You loaded your comparison Corolla to the
max with stuff that isn't included on my car. I don't have a CD changer,
or side airbags, or a moonroof or any of a number of things you padded
onto the comparison.

According to your final argument, which you calculated using the 19K
number, the Prius would save me $483. If we redo the calculation using
the car I actually own, it turns out that I save $4600 minus the $438,
for a total savings of $4162. Depreciation isn't a factor, since the car
will never be traded. I'll drive it until it isn't functional then go
out and buy a new one.