T+C Van intermittent starter problem

Hi;
I'm having an intermittent problem with the starter in
my 2000 T&C Limited, 111,000 mi, 3.8L V6.
Any advice would be helpful.

When I turn the key to start it, I hear the starter engage
but it doesn't turn the motor. I turn off the key and do the
same procedure and the car starts just fine.

Now, I know what most of you are thinking -- bad battery.
But I checked it. With the car cranking, the batter voltage
is 11.5V. Even when the starter does its crazy non-turning
thing the battery voltage is 11.5V. Voltage when car is off
is 12.2V. and voltage when running is around 14V.

So, maybe it is the starter cable. So I put the VOM on the
starter post and did the same experiment. Same result, 11.5V
on cranking, so I assume it is not the starter cable.

Is there a solenoid in the starter housing somewhere, like the
old GM starters. I have greate experience with the detachable
solenoid on a GM model. Seems like they used that design for
25 years.

My final questions -- Is it worth putting in another starter,
cost $100? Are there any other tests I can do?
If I go through the trouble of removing the starter to have it
bench tested, I might as well not waste time and just put in a
new one.

Gary J.
Atlanta Georgia.
Home of the Braves (Division champs for the past 14 years).

 

yes, there is a solenoid on the starter assembly and the contacts get very
dirty and pitted and stop working. The failure mode is pretty much what you
have seen - intermittent starting and "click, no start". You can search
this news groups archives to find out how to get replacement contacts for a
cheap and permanent fix. The Nippondenso starters themselves rarely fail.
Given you hear the click, this seems to indicate the ignition key and
starter relay are working properly.

All this said, your battery voltage at 11.5VDC and 12.2VDC sounds extremely
low if the
solenoid does not engage. You should make sure the battery and the cable
connections are good.

Good luck and post your findings for others to benefit as well.

Bob

 

IOWs, it just clicks...

The solenoid is integral to the starter but VERY repairable.
You can buy the parts needed at:
http://www.autosupply.ws/contacts.htm

You need one each of part number(s)
SCC3401 and SCC3404
at 29 and 39 cents apiece, it's a cheap, easy reliable repair.

Uh, no. You'll just get a piece of crap of unknown quality.
The starter is easily accessed and held on by two bolts.

Just did one yesterday, took all of 1/2 hour.

 

I have a very similar problem.

My '96 T&C will turn over a few times, not start, then nothing. I hear no
clicks except inside the car in the block below the steering column.

I have the BIIIG shop Chrysler book. I have done all the procedures,
except check the park/neutral switch.

When I run the wire from the B+ of the battery to the #87 of the starter
relay, the engine turns over very well but, with the key on, will not
start, so it is not the solenoid, starter or battery.

I changed the ignition switch (had to buy a whole SET of the torx sockets
with the holes in the middle) it made no difference. I took it to the
repair shop--IT ALWAYS STARTED THERE. According to them, they started it
300 times... I can always tell when it WILL start because, after driving
for a while, if the temp needle goes up, it will start. If it DOESN'T go
up, it won't. The gas gauge works whether the car will start or not. We
decided that POSSIBLY it was the park/neutral safety switch. I told them
to order it and put it in. When it came, it did not look like the switch
in the shop manual. The shop guy told me they had to remove the valve
body and other things to install it. So I told them to forget it.

The shop manual shows the switch above the pan on the OUTSIDE of the
transaxle. So there evidently has been an update since the manual was
printed.

All it all, it is a very frustrating situation. I rarely turn off the van
because I may not start--or it may, just never know.

Any suggestions?

 

It sounds to me like you got a heavy-current wire from the battery that has
a
bad/corroded/loose contact. Not bad enough to be disconnected, just bad
enough to reduce voltage at the engine computer/interior/etc.

In all the traversals this van has taken, did anyone even once put a volt
ohm
meter on it and measure to see if there was a voltage difference between,
say the cig lighter, and the battery?

Ted

 

<It sounds to me like you got a heavy-current <wire from the battery that
has a
<bad/corroded/loose contact. Not bad enough to <be disconnected, just bad
enough to reduce <voltage at the engine computer/interior/etc.

While that may be true, if so, why does the starter turn over at what I
consider FULL SPEED when I run a wire from the battery positive terminal
0R from the #30 terminal to #87 on the starter relay, which goes directly
to the solenoid? In other words, I'm eliminating the starter switch on
the steering column, and shooting juice directly to the solenoid. And it
will turn over....not always START, even with the ignition switch turned
to RUN..but it does turn over normal speed--fast. I feel there is a
problem SOMEWHERE in a circuit that goes to BOTH the starter solenoid AND
the ignition. Just can't find it.

<In all the traversals this van has taken, did <anyone even once put a
volt ohm meter on it and <measure to see if there was a voltage difference
<between, say the cig lighter, and the battery?

Altho I really don't KNOW, according to the guy at the shop, they did all
the ohm tests called for in the shop manual and found nothing. It really
is very frustrating since I NEVER know when it will or won't start. Since
it left the shop 4 days ago, I started on a very long trip and it started
all but 2 times. But those 2 times were at a gas station and the check-in
parking at the motel. I usually just don't turn it off until I'm in a
place where I intend to stay for a long time, usually overnite. Very
strange car.

John

 

Another thought: Could it be somehow related to the alarm? Is there a
starter cut out or fuel pump cut out on that model and year that might give
you the symptoms you are observing?

Bob

 

<Could it be somehow related to the alarm? Is <there a starter cut out or
fuel pump cut out on <that model and year that might give you the
<symptoms you are observing?

I guess that could be possible but the alarm works OK. As for a fuel pump
or starter cutout, I think that might be covered by the park/neutral
switch--or maybe not. That is the ONE thing we didn't change because of
the necessity of removing the valve body and other transaxle components.
Maybe we should have. It has been starting fine these past couple of
days--as it did at the shop--but there is always the next time...:-(

Thanx for all the help...maybe I just need to trade it off and let the
NEXT guy worry about it. ;-)

John

 

Greetings - Here's a followup on my 2000 T&C starter problems
BINGO - Many thanks to aarcuda69062 (see response below).
Saved me lots of $$$$$.
I cleaned the starter contacts and put the starter back.
Ordered the parts as described in the reply.
It works fine with cleaned contacts but I need to replace the
contacts when the parts come in. The contacts are only sold
in lots of 10, so I will have 9 spares. Anyone want some?

Gary Jablonski

 

The contacts are only sold in lots of 10, so I will have 9 spares. Anyone
want some?

I'll take a set. Can pay with PayPal?

Thanx
John

 

I think I may be closing in on the problem. The van didn't start a couple
of times today but when I played with the gearshift, FINALLY it would
start. I think it probably is that park/neutral safety switch in the
transaxle. I can hardly wait to pay for THAT fix!

John

 

Had my van towed to the dealer because it flat WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING
starting-wise. Cost $652 for a new TCM--plus 2 days of rent car ($167)
and 2 taxi rides to various places ($60). But now it works fine EXCEPT
the idle is 1200-1300 (was 700 before) and with the cruise set, when going
down a hill (not up) the trans shifts from 4th to 3rd. I called the dealer
and was told that the computer has to learn everything again. Wish I knew
how long THAT takes. Anyway, it is fixed and it WAS NOT the park/neutral
switch.

 

Here's a follow-up.

Please read other postings of this thread.
They mention starter contact replacement parts.
I got the parts but they are sold in lots of 10.
I have lots of spares now. Anybody that wants a
set of contacts, post a reply and I'll contact you.
Parts will be free, just pay shipping (about $2).

Regards, and thanks for all the replies.
Special thanks to the member that posted the part
numbers. They helped me a lot. I saved $100.

Gary J.
Atlanta