SParkplug removal question- pls help

First, I have successfully replaced even the rear plugs in my Caravan from
underneath so I'm not a total putz....

With that said- my other car is Protege...1 plug came out no problem...the
other 3 will turn anywhere from 1/4 to a full turn before binding up, i.e.,
getting too hard to turn. The one plug that came out was clean with normal
wear and no deposits. No anti-seize was used on any of the plugs but this
hasn't been a problem in the past. All plugs have approx 80,000 miles on
them and are bosch plats. Car currently gets combined MPG of 34, idles and
runs great...

Any thought on getting them out? I noticed that on #4 (goes a full turn)
that it seemed a lot easier to turn when the engine was still hot. Should I
be doing this hot or cold? Or should I just run this into a shop and give
them my wallet.

TIA,

Richard Smith

 

I'd loosen them a half turn or so and then soak them with penetrating
oil and let it soak overnight and then try again.

Matt

 

Thanks Matt.

I noticed that the one that made the full turn was a lot easier to turn
while the engine was still really warm..not hot..should I try it with the
engine hot? The aluminum head should expand out from the plugs more than
the plugs expanding out into the head, I think. (I live in Houston so it's
not like 40 degrees outside anyway).

Thanks,

RIchard

 

If the plugs seemed easier with the engine hot should I try that during
removal? I put them in with a cold engine.

Richard

 

NEVER NEVER pull plugs on a hot motor that has aluminum heads. Work cold and
if it binds don't force it. Loosen it try pen oil also back it out a little
than back in a little. Do not FORCE it do not do it hot.
Larry

 

Might not hurt to have it warm, I'm just concerned that having it too
hot might make the aluminum spall more easily if the plugs have a ring
of carbon on them that must be broke free.


Matt

 

unscrew the plugs just enough to get some oil on the threads then retighen them
gently then attempt to remove them again gently if they bind squirt with oil
again then repeat process this will remove any debris stuck to the threads

 

Good feedback and I thank you all.

I've tried the soak overnight last night...to no avail...plug #4 turned one
full turn yesterday...same today...the other two are maybe 1/4~1/2..soak,
turn, soak turn...the only difference was that as the cooled completely they
just got harder...which is why I wondered about hot turning them...odd thing
with #2- he came out all the way and had no deposits on him after 40,000
miles (the others have been there since who knows when, I'm estimating
80,000 but could be 100,000- #2 came out no problem in 2002 while the others
were in exactly the state they are now)

So...do I try it hot anyway? Or just wait for the plugs to give me trouble
(and when they do what will it be- bad gas mileage? Or will the car simply
not start or start running rough? )...at least half of the mileage has been
pure highway - dallas to houston at 70~80 so these plugs could go a while
longer, methinks.

Again, my sincere appreciation for the feedback on this, I'd really like to
run this car until the wheels come off.

 

My choice would be to do what you have to do to get them out *now* -
it's only delaying the inevitable, and it will only get worse to put it
off.

You are using a true penetrating oil, and not something like WD-40, I
take it? (PB Blaster is an excellent brand in your auto parts store.)

Regarding the advice of not trying it hot - that's good advice, but you
have a difficult problem, and sometimes they require bending the rules a
bit to tradeoff risks and damage. The two conflicting things about
doing it hot are:
(1) The clearances will indeed open up due to difference in temp-co's -
that works in favor of doing it hot.
(2) The aluminum is more subject to wiping at higher temperatures, so of
course that's an argument against doing it hot.

If trying to remove them cold with a little (but not too much) more
force doesn't do it, then do it hot, but apply less force - the hope
being that the additional clearances will allow them to come out with
minimum damage to the head threads.

Something to consider: After saturating them with true penetrating oil,
do the moderate removal torque with it hot. Leave them turned out as
far as they will go, then let it cool off (the idea being that the
contraction will help compress the carbon that is in the threads). Then
do the hot thing again - turn them in again, saturate with penetrating
oil again, get it hot, then turn them out again with moderate torque.
After the first time or two of that, you will be able to see if you're
making headway or not. If so, try it one or two times more.

If still making progress, but still not free to turn all the way out, I
would stop at that point - it may be that you are just damaging the
threads (rather than gradually removing the interfering carbon), but by
stopping at that point, you should still have plenty of good thread left
for the future. You may end up having to have the heads removed -
better to do it to get the plugs out with threads intact than to have it
done because you have to helicoil new threads into the heads.

Short of pulling the heads now, I say you either have to gently try the
hot method, or go to more torque with it cold. Either way it's a risk -
not an easy decision. But I definitely say don't put it off - the risks
are at their lowest now (compared to running with those plugs until they
won't run any more.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

I've been soaking them (or rather, #4, the easy one) with Breakfree
CLP...this weekend was the trial run so to speak. Next weekend with three
days off I'll be back down here to give it another go.

Thank you for the recommendation on the penetrant- I'll go look that up this
week.

I am really curious to get at least one of these guys out and have a look-
why would all but one have a carbon build up to that degree?

One last question related to trying it hot- will the engine be able to start
and run with the plugs backed out to any degree to allow it to get hot
again? With number #2 I can say it's around 11 full turns on the wrench to
get one plug in or out....#4, the easier one, came a full turn out hot, and
maybe 1/2 ~3/4 cold, with Breakfree soak.

Thank you Bill!

Richard

 

It probably would. I'd be more inclined to turn the plugs back in
before starting it up to heat up (if they are not too bound up from
cooling off with them turned out).

You're welcome. No guarantees no matter what you do short of pulling
the heads, but I would do what I could to avoid that expense for such a
seemingly "simple" problem.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Could be that three of the plugs aren't correct for the engine and have
too much reach thus exposing the threads to carbon accumulation. Who
knows...


Matt

 

Interesting...continuing to Google search with additional keywords PB &
Kroil along with Spark Plug...appears that I have carbon fouling up into the
threads possible...or maybe some crud got carried in there..or perhaps that
little bit of oil on the threads coked them up.

So now it's off to penetrant land and a possible side order of heating!

Thanks to everyone for the information and feedback!

Regards,

Richard

 

Subject: Re: SParkplug removal question- pls help

Richard,

Another poster mentioned the reach of the offending plug's threads may be
extending into the chambers-likewise allowing carbon to build up. Whenever you
get the sobs out-check and make sure they are the correct plugs for yer
application. Additionally, you might try a decarbonizer treatment to soften up
the carbon on the threads from the inside of the engine. Hang in there.
Respectfully submitted,

Loren Knighton
Woodland, CA.

Under the hood since 1964
Member TRNI IATN
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/trans_atf.html
http://www.longmfg.com/web/longwebframework.nsf/home/web.trucool

 

Loren, thanks!

What do you recommend for a decarbonizer treatment?

All the plugs were the same but only #2 was still free to come out and
showed no internal deposits (which means nothing on the threads of course).

I'm going to give the PB Blaster/Kroil a shot cold first then hot if I need
to. I'm really leaning toward the threads having gotten gummed/coked up.

Thanks again,

RIchard

 

Subject: Re: SParkplug removal question- pls help

Kroil,

Best penetrant I have used-mostly on exhaust manifold flange studs/nuts.
Amazing stuff can be tough to find in some areas. As to the decarbonizer
treatment-the one I am thinking of is offered at shops and it made by Snap-On.
Hang in there.
Respectfully submitted,

Loren Knighton
Woodland, CA.

Under the hood since 1964
Member TRNI IATN
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/trans_atf.html
http://www.longmfg.com/web/longwebframework.nsf/home/web.trucool

 

What about water down the intake with the engine running. That used to
be a de-carbonizing method that a lot of people swore by (the theroy is
that the water gets absorbed into the carbon and turns to steam when it
heats up and breaks the carbon loose).

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")