Solution to gas prices: Nationalization

In message Robert Reynolds sprach
forth the following:

In a free market, once a product rises to a certain level of profitability,
other capitalists enter into the business. This increased competition then
levels the prices back down.

Of course this doesn't happen in the US gas market because the environuts
have opposed EVERY refinery construction plan for the last 30 years.

Wait a second - I thought you said you "demand gasoline absolutely". Are
you using E85 or gas?

Because in reality you're buying a result moreso than a product. You need
to drive X miles. Gasoline will get you that result, but so will E85
(assuming you have an E85-compatible vehicle). So gas and E85 are really
part of the same market. When one price moves, the other will too.

Which is why E85 is very bad news for anyone who eats.

 

the barrel price oil is pretty stable and has been. the oil companies/refiners
are
screwing with the price so they can pay off the katrina rebuild bill.
you folks have to remember the price will fall in August and fast because they
have to start making the winter blends which takes sixi weeks or so
i was told by a fellow who works for vesco oil company in detroit that they now
use sour crude oil to make gas and diesel fuel and sweet crude is what is used
for engine oils and cutting oils and such any truth to that ??

 

It's funny that a lot of folks believe the big shots can get away with
whatever they want, until they want to gouge everybody, then the
environmentalists suddenly have the power to stop them. They don't want
to build more refineries. In fact, they like shutting them down because
then they can pretend that market forces are driving the prices up. Did
you notice that the supply has not yet failed to meet the demand? Have
you been refused gasoline?

I buy gasoline. I have a flex fuel van, but it has a little problem
with a trashed valve, as mentioned in another thread. I was curious
enough to start tracking the prices.

One thing I can do is buy less of it. I bought a 1993 Civic with a 5
speed last week, and I'm going to get it on the road in a few days.
That's going to save me a lot of money.

So, in other words it isn't a case of supply and demand as so many
people simplistically believe. If it were, the two products would
compete against each other, but they don't. Incidentally, I was buying
parts for the aforementioned flex fuel vehicle, and the online parts
catalog informed me that 65% of 1999 Grand Voyagers have a 3.3 flex fuel
engine. Lots of people could be buying E85, but there's only one gas
station in Kansas City that sells it. Looks like a good opportunity for
more folks to enter the supply chain.

 

Here in Southern California there was once a lot of independents. I
believe they had their own refinerys. The big boys bought them out and
that was the end of the "in a free market" scenario.

 

That reminds me of the trolley buyouts that happened decades ago. The
market was not clamoring for fewer trolleys and more cars. It's just
that GM and Firestone decided they could buy the trains out, shut them
down, and make a fortune selling cars and accessories.

 

In message Robert Reynolds sprach
forth the following:

You drive a van and put gas in it? Yet you harangue the gas companies?
There's a name for you: John "I don't own an SUV - my family does!" Kerry.

 

In message Robert Reynolds
sprach forth the following:

Uh, yes it is.

Uh, actually they do. This and other statements of yours show that you
pretty much have zero knowledge of economics and little desire to learn, so
I'm not going to bother educating you.

 

In message Robert Reynolds sprach
forth the following:

How many people have EVER ridden a trolley?

 

Perhaps the appropriate question here would be how many people *would*
have ridden a trolley?

 

In message F.H. sprach forth the
following:

Government transit is dying:

http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-usptshare45.htm

 

Couple of interesting spikes. The percentages really dropped off once
the buyouts took place, freeways began and of course marketing. "See
the USA in your Chevrolet, America is asking you to call."

 

In message F.H. sprach forth the
following:

Buyouts? What are you smoking?

Government transit markets too - and it doesn't have to worry about turning
a profit.

 

In message Robert Reynolds sprach
forth the following:

So you would have denied the owners of private transit companies the right
to do with their private property what they saw fit to do? Thanks again
for showing that you're a communist.

 

In message Robert Reynolds
sprach forth the following:

Maybe you should get a job?

 

Why is it that every conservative armchair economist sooner or latter
must play the "commie" card?

 

It's all they've got.

 

Quoting other poster. A little Googleing turns up;

"In the 1930s and '40s, General Motors, the Firestone Tire Company, Mack
Truck, Phillips Petroleum, and Standard Oil of California--all operating
through a front company called National City Lines (NCL)--bought up
dozens of local mass-transit systems that were operating the popular
electric streetcars. Their plan was to control virtually all the leading
mass-transit systems in America, and replace electric trolleys with
smoky, gas-guzzling buses. In many cases, these trolley transit
companies had previously been financially looted by their financier
owners and fallen into disrepair, which only made them easier targets
for acquisition. Once NCL purchased the trolley lines with "borrowed"
money from GM and others, the tracks were torn up and the trolleys sold
or destroyed, replaced by petroleum-powered GM buses running on tires
and oil supplied by the NCL companies."

Tell that to Amtrak.

 

In message F.H. sprach forth the
following:

You're right. Centralized control of private property is more along
fascist/socialist lines. My apologies.

 

In message F.H. sprach forth the
following:

Hmmmm... that's objective.

BTW, government transit is DEFINED by "smoky, gas-guzzling buses". Glad to
see you come out against government transit.

The only thing I have to say to Amtrak is DIE MUTHAFUKKA DIE!

 

Who said anything about government transit? What I was referring to was
the private transit companies that used to operate decades ago. I know,
most people today have never ridden them. But years ago everybody used
to ride them. That is, until they were shut down. And they weren't
shut down because everybody agreed that they were no longer needed.