Simultaneous Application of Gas and Brake Pedals

AMC and RAMBLER used tranny's that did not have extarnal cooling through the
sixties. The "Typhoon six" which is now called 4.0 liter in Jeeps was
orginally sold with Borg Warners. The V8 versions had a goofy finned Tourque
converters. The Heavy Duty or Torque Tube Transmissions on Trucks and early
sixties V-8's were even more "Special".

I've got both versions downstairs in my garage if u got a hankerin fer a
picture

Torqueflight 904's 998's and 727's were used post 1971.

 

QED stands for a Latin phrase which translates as

"Which was to be proved."

It's a standard closing remark to mathematical proofs.

 

My memory is about the same. In the late 60s they were using a
Borg-Warner auto. It shifted firmly and early compared to later day
automatics. I really liked AMC's drive trains but can't say I was
much impressed by the bodies. Lots of vehicles used air cooled ATs
back then, I know my Mom's 64 Chevelle used an air cooled powerglide
behind a HO 283. When it shifted at WOT the whole car jumped.
--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789

 

Any reasonable person would accept referring to a transmission that was
used in AMC vehicles as an AMC transmission. Key word being "reasonable".

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Your engine stalls in the middle of an intersection and loss of power
steering causes a wreck? Just how likely is that, anyway?

 

The "self energizing" part is true. But no pedal effort is "wasted"
because part of a brake caliper is "forced open"

 

Apparently it used to happen all the time in the 1950s. Just listen to the
endless parade of bloody, tearful teenage-love-cut-tragically-short-when-
car-stalls songs...

;-)

 

And the pedal effort in a 4400-lb 1969 vehicle with manual disk brakes
is NOT significantly higher than the pedal effort in a Honda Accord of
today. And disk vs. drum makes no difference at all. I just don't see
whay the staement that power boost "is a necessity with disk brakes"
keeps popping into discussions.

 

'Scuse me while I pick my jaw up off the floor!

I've *NEVER* run anto anyone who thought AMC ever built their own
transmissions before.

 

I don't know about the middle of an intersection, but one time I had the
belt pop off while in stop-n-go traffic on the freeway. I did alright,
but my wife would've wrecked for sure. It was a nasty surprise.

--Geoff

 

*sigh*

I'm not typing my explanation of it again. It is far more likely to be
necessary with discs than with drums. search this thread for it.

nate

 

Not that uncommon for engines to stall when you let off the
throttle. I've had the problem in both of my current cars,
when there were various minor problems with the engines.

Fortunately you can still steer when the engine is stalled,
you just have to use a bit of muscle. It's loss of power braking
that worries me more (in a previous car, you simply could not
slow down the car with the brake pedal, once you'd used up the
bit of boost that was saved up. Either that or I have weak legs).

I liked my 900kg car with no PS (it was easy to do power-u-turns
in), but when I'm steering my 1300kg PS car with the engine
stalled, I feel like I'm about to rip the steering wheel off.

 

Only if they had no clue how parts are sourced and
put together, or what the difference between a part made
by a company & just installed.

Anyone who thinks International Harvester products were
*under* engineered has no concept of what they are talking about.

I say this as the owner of a forty year old four cyl. scout that came
factory with sodium filled valves, just because it seemed like
the way to do it.

Bernard

 

Why, thank you!

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

There is that, but I didn't pick on Putney for it 'cause his claim that
"AMC automatic transmissions" was crying out louder for attention.

They did have their downsides, chief amongst which was parts
interchangeability. Ever look at the Hollander Interchange Manual for just
about any "light duty" IH product? Six different and non-interchangeable
front brake drums for one model, for instance, depending on production
date!

But yeah, IH was never *ever* known for putting out marginally-engineered
products before the company failed and was reborn as "Navistar".

Yup. Very typical of IH.

DS

 

Nate, there's absolutely NO engineering basis for that statement! That
was my whole objection in the first place. The fact that there have been
several (incorrect) assertions made in this thread about "why" disk
brakes "need" power assist does not make it true. Disk brakes do not
"need" power assist any more than drum brakes, whether or not the drum
brakes are of the self-energizing variety.

 

100% agreed on that one. The IH 345 is one of the most amazingly tough
engines I've ever seen. Pretty comparable overall to the
truck/industrial versions of the Mopar big-blocks of the 60s and 70s
(the 413 and 361 in particular).

 

So you're saying that all those years of engineering school and
experience actually working as an engineer with automotive braking
systems were for naught. The fact that you don't like my explanation
doesn't mean it's not true. Discs *do* require more line pressure for
a given brake torque than self-energizing drums, assuming similar
diameters and normal piston sizes. Simple, indisputable fact.

nate

(damn, I really hate it when I have to play the "credentials" card, but
willfully ignorant people just piss me the f**k off!)

 

Very true!

I don't like hydroboosts, just for the simple reason that a lot of
times the PS pump is not adequately sized. Thus, if you do a few quick
slalom maneuvers and then slam on the brakes, the pump may "gulp" for a
second to catch up. Not something that happens in everyday driving, to
be sure, but IMHO that makes it even more dangerous, as it can be
alarming when it happens.

I don't remember ever having this issue in my old BMW 535i but I've
experienced it in several light trucks and SUVs (only vehicles I've
driven with hydraulic assist.) Of course, the Bimmer had another issue
which was the hydraulic accumulator "bomb" was dead, which made initial
application of the brake pedal, um, interesting, but that was more due
to the fact that it was ancient and had 200K miles on it rather than a
design flaw. Likely with the dead "bomb" it would have experienced the
same problems, but I never had it on a test track to find out.

nate

 

Definitely simple and indisputable, but why are you being so obtuse as to
pretend this is even close to half of the story? "Needs more line
pressure" does NOT necessarily equate to "Needs a power booster".

There are *many* ways of varying the mechanical advantage of the driver's
foot over the disc caliper pistons.

DS