Shimmy

I have a question for the group. I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim with a 3.0L
and about 255,000 miles. It's been a good car but it has developed a
problem that is driving me crazy. When you accelerate with the car, at
about 38 mph the vehicle starts to shimmy. This continues until about 45
mph at which point it goes away. You can then drive the car as fast as you
like and it doesn't re-occur. The shimmy seems to shake the entire front
end of the vehicle.

I've check the tires. rotated the tires, checked the CV joints and
everything else in the front end and haven't found anything that could cause
this. I thought I had found the problem when I found some slack (about
1/16") in one of the inside tire rod ends. I spent a Saturday replacing
that (NO ROOM TO WORK UNDER THERE) and it made NO difference.

The shimmy is engine speed specific. It makes no difference what gear the
transmission is in (a A604 automatic) it still shimmies at the same speeds.
You have to be accelerating to cause the shimmy. If you let off the gas
while it's shimmying, it instantly goes away. The intensity of the shimmy
is directly related to how hard you are accelerating; put your foot in it
and it shimmies bad (but not for long because you go through those speeds
quickly). If you gently accelerate then the shimmy is minor. Temperature
also seems to affect the shimmy. When it's cold outside the shimmy is
greatly reduced (although I live in Houston and we don't get a lot of cold).

I'm beginning to believe that this might be a motor mount problem. I've
even thought about removing the hood so I could see the engine during
acceleration to see if it is oscillating in the mounts during the time you
feel the shimmy.

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

Define "...checked the CV joints...". And you're sure this is not an
engine miss?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

David your problem sounds like a worn out inner cv joint, If you were to
cut the strap that secures the boot to the joint and peak in at the grease I
would bet it is all rusted up.
The one that normally causes this problem is the passenger side but the
drivers side will also cause this problem.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

I'll put it on jack stands and take another look at the CV joints. They
feel tight and the boots are fine, but that doesn't mean they aren't rusted
up inside. Several years ago I replaced a half-shaft on my son's Mazda and
in about 500 miles it was shaking the car badly at all speeds. It was
caused by the inner joint. We had to replace the shaft again. I'm
convinced that they forgot to put any grease in that inner joint and it
promptly ate its self. I'll let you know what I find.

 

Well Glenn's post makes three votes to look at the CV joints again.

Aftermarket rebuilt half shafts are know for poor quality control - not
unusual at all to get a bad one. NAPA used to be known for controlling
the selection and quality of their suppliers - I don't know if that's
still the case - I know I found it to be true with rebuilt alternators
(compared to, say, Advance Auto Parts) a couple of years ago - may still
be true with half shafts.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Bill, I turned in a bunch of cores the other day and the guy that takes them
to the company that rebuilds them told me a little story of what the
rebuilder does. One company in New Jersey Sprays the brushes with a cleaner
and paints them and that's it!!!! Out to the stores they go.A/C compressors
done the same way. That's why I would never buy a rebuilt unit from anyone
in the aftermarket. I'm sure there are some companies out there that rebuild
correctly but you cant beat an OEM part, new or rebuilt.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

one thing u can do is remove the belts and drive the car that might help tell
you if the accessory drive stuff is the cause
i also know the trans in those cars had a lock up issue with the trans at about
45mph

 

Understood. However, with just a little bit of due diligence, the
regional auto parts stores could ferret out the bad suppliers. I bought
a rebuilt alt. for a Cadillac I used to own from Advance. The rebuilder
was useing plastic fans in place of the original metal ones. Only
problem was that the fan was compressed between the pulley and the shaft
step, and with heat and revs, the plastic would cold flow and expand
(centrifical force) so the pulley would start spinning on the shaft.
The fan eventually exploded and left the pulley free to rotate on the
shaft. The next two were from the same rebuilder, and they had replaced
the plastic fan with a very cheesy metal one - they both also failed.
After the third one failed, I demanded my money back and went to NAPA
and paid a little more for one that was obviously better made and that
never gave problems (not to say that higher price at NAPA always gets
you a better part - brake booster - same part number from same builder
$101 from NAPA, $85 from Advance). But I guarantee that NAPA would not
keep a supplier like that that had rebuilt the three alternators I had
for the Caddy.

But you're right - for certain items, OEM is definitely the way to go.
But there are exceptions to that. For example - have you ever compared
the aftermarket toe adjuster sleeves for the LH cars to the aftermarket
part - a world of difference. The OEM part is designed to fail (take a
look at my post, complete with photos, in this thread on the 300M
forums:
http://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4011&highlight=adjuster+sleeve+napa

I will also go with aftermarket evaporator on my Concorde due to huge
difference in price, and what appears to be an improved (relative to the
OEM) aftermarket part. ctually the aftermarket has two parts avialable
(same guarantee) - one that is the OEM part, the other an improved
design. Also many/most suspension parts for my LH car pretty much are
the OEM part at much better prices.

Bottom line - you can't just make a rule, like "Always go aftermarket",
or "Always go OEM". You have to use some discernment on each and every
part.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Oh yea, with out a doubt, There are parts I would buy after market such as a
tie rod adjuster, they are probably made by Moog anyhow, the same company
that makes them for Chrysler. But at the dealer we cant put an aftermarket
part on a vehicle unless it is not available from Chrysler ( warranty
issues) As far as An aftermarket Evap!!! Nope I would never use one . Reason
being the 12/12000 mile warranty that I can give my customers versus what
ever the after market gives if there is one. If I had to take a guess I
would say the aftermarket Evap is built better then the OEM but the
warranty is better.But as far as pricing goes we get discounts on all parts
purchased thru the dealer which helps to stop buying the Aftermarket stuff

 

....or TRW - one owns the other anyway. But is clearly a much different
(better) part.

Even if the aftermarket part is clearly a better part. Too bad.

Uh - both aftermarket units I mentioned earlier for my LH car - 1 year
warranty. So if it's better, and has the same warranty (which I'm not
sure means a whole lot - yeah may or may *not* be an indicator of
quality - considering the amount of labor involved in a replacement),
*now* which do you buy for yourself?

Nope - same warranty.

I bet that the prices everyone can get thru a discount dealer with an
internet presence will give Joe Blow as good a price as you can get with
your employee discount.

As an experiment, go to www.chryselrpartsdirect.com (or any one of a
number of similar sites selling OEM parts) and plug in a few DC part
numbers for medium- to high-dollar items and see what price it comes
back with (and trading off shipping cost for sales tax). Then compare
that to what you would pay with your employee discount. I'd be
interested in the results.

Also - careful what you post - you might get in trouble with your job.
DC has come down hard on employees who frequent forums. I doubt they
have a reach on you, but your dealer sure does (indirect link).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

I dont own an LH so I wouldnt have to use one, but if I did I would go with
Mopar. They would at least pay the labor and part if it were to fail within
12/12k.

Does the after market pay the labor to reinstall??

Not to sure about that with newer vehicles, but im sure on E Bay you can
beat the price big time on the older ones.

We get 10% over cost, im happy with that.

I dont work for Chrysler,.I work at a dealer. They cant tell me I cant go
into these forums. I use my name on here and if they want they can contact
me very easy at work. I have had some E mail from the corporate headquarters
at Chrysler Ask me questions pertaining to problems that I replied back to
and also some to get input from certain products out in the field. There was
also one of our training instructors in here at one time but since he went
to Toyota I havent seen him in here. But anyway, I dont badmouth them.

 

No - labor would of course not be covered. I'm surprised to find that
it would be at a dealer. But still - the out-the-door price would be
ridiculous I think - I'll take the risk for the difference in price.

Ebay is too much of a hassle IMO - plus too risky (unless you have
confidence in the seller - some of the ratings are suspect). I'm just
talking on-line dealer vs. dealer down the street.

Not sure what that works out to be. Here is what I have found: The
on-line dealer price is typically 20% below DC's published list. the
dealer within sight of my house sells for 10% *OVER* list to everyone -
unbelievable. They don't even discount to local body shops (according
to a shop I have dealt with - they order their stuff from a dealer 100
miles away that delivers to their door in their own truck!). So -
compared to my local dealer, the discount dealer with internet presence
is 30% lower than the dealer (again sales tax vs. shipping is about a wash).

I was in the local dealer last weak getting some "nickel and dime" door
panel fasteners (the "christmas tree"/"mushroom" green/white fasteners -
they charged over $2 for one, over $3 for another, and I needed several
- I'll never do that again! I laughed in their face when they told me
the price, and they also had signs posted all over the dealership saying
that they were having a 10% off sale on all parts that week - which
brought them down to full list - woopee!

Discussing pricing, employee discounts, and the like is the kind of
thing that would get a direct employee in trouble. I bet we could come
up with some stuff that you would be more than hesitant to discuss.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

I dont deal with E bay either but have seen what appears to be good deals.

Im sure you could.

 

Mopar warranties Labor on replacement parts "ONLY" If installed at the
dealer. If you install it yourself or have a shop install the part, you only
get warranty for the part for 12 months.

 

The savings of DIY will way more than make up for the risks introduced
by giving up any such warranties IMO.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')