Selling a used car, how do I avoid scams?

Easy, they arrest the drug dealer and start questioning him and want to know
where all his money is and where he got the expensive car from. Since they
want the money rather than a vehicle under a forfeiture, it's not beyond my
belief that if the sale took place 3 days earlier and the dealer hadn't sent
in
the title yet that they would drag the car back to you and tell you that
it's your car
and since the money was criminal you owe it back. And if the vehicle has
a few smashed windows when they busted the guy, tough. I know it sounds
farfetched but some of the abuses that took place under the forfeture law
in Oregon were unbelievable, you would think they were talking about Russia.
One guy, for example, some old farmer who didn't trust banks, had $80,000
in cash under his mattress, the cops busted in one day on a tip from a
neighbor, searched his house, found zero drugs or drug paraphnelia, found
the money, claimed it under forfeture, and 4 years later the guy was still
fighting them with a lawsuit. He has never even been charged with a crime
much less convicted. The cops claimed some of the money had drug residue on
it.
Well it's estimated that every bill in circuilation for any length of time
in the
United States has drug residue on it. It is stories like that which got the
forfeture law thrown out via initative.

When I bought our 95 T&C some years back for close to $6K, I paid the seller
in cash.
I had gone to the bank on Friday and withdrew it and had it with me. When
we agreed
on the price he started saying something about going to the bank on Monday
and getting
a cashiers check, and I pulled out the wad of $100 bills and started
counting them out.
It was fun watching his expression.

One of these days if I ever win the lottery I'd just love to drop $45K in
hundreds on
the desk at a car dealership, just to watch them salivate. My father in law
who works at a dealership has seen people in that income bracket whip out
checkbooks and write
personal checks for that amount on the spot. But I don't think it has the
same raw
in your face effect as that much cash would.

Ted

 

You would think after all this time after the Salem Witch Trials of
centuries ago here in 1692, people would give this up. When you look at
what happpened way back when, the Massachusetts Bay Colony Corporation
seized all the assets of those who confessed to being a witch or found
guilty at trial.

They were almost 100% successful except for one man. They literally
pressed him to death between stones but his family kept the property
because he, Giles Corey, refused to go to trial. And he also refused to
confess while tortured to death.

Your comments about seeing the green are quite so. I have been told
that showing the cash one can bargain even more. Maybe the fellow was
surprised not only about the show of the money but that you did not
further dicker about the price since you were saving him some time and
trouble. A very low hassle sale for him.

 

Yes, Cory was a shrewd man - being 80 he had lived his life and he
planned his martyrdom very cleverly. He didn't refuse to go to trial
to save his property. He chose not to go to trial because that would
automatically force a death by pressing penalty - and there hadn't been
a pressing before in the colony. It's a sickening death and one that
Cory suspected would revolt the colony members and cause them to
think the witchcraft trials had gone too far - which it did. Pressing
was a death that was just as bad to watch as it was to suffer. Cory
had opposed the witchcraft trials and he arrainged his death as
revenge against his accusers, and it worked very well. 3 days after
he was pressed there were some more witches hanged, then they
all started to get acquitted and those were the last of the witches
hung. Cory was the only one pressed for this, by the way.

I've heard that before but I think that is a highly risky strategy. If the
person your buying the vehicle from has never sold a car before it might
work - but if they are like me and they have sold a few cars it's just going
to piss them off because it's such an obvious trick.

I've had people call me on the phone before when I've listed vehicles and
before even coming over to see it, start trying to dicker with me over the
price. Twice I've had people tell me they would pay cash for it as if that
was 'more desirable' I've always told those people that I certainly don't
expect to sell a vehicle for anything OTHER than cash!

As a buyer I think the best strategy is to assume the seller is
sophisticated
and not try to pull dumb tricks. If the seller is an idiot then they will
feel
as though your a nice guy who is respectful, if the seller is sophisticated
they will appreciate not being insulted by dumb tricks.

When I go to look at a used car I call in advance and ask for the VIN
then I run it against the free carfax to get the make and model and year.
I've had a few people list vehicles 1 year younger than what the actual
year is that I've caught - generally I don't even call those people back.
If the advertising checks out then I will go to look at it. When I get
there
I'll spend some time talking to the seller before even looking at the car,
to get an idea of how flexible they are going to be.

For example when I was looking for our first van I went to one place
and the woman was asking $3K for her van, as soon as I got out of my
car I saw the side of her van was all rumpled. She had obviously got
t-boned or something. I looked at her and said "well thanks but I won't
waste any more of your time" She asked 'aren't you going to look at it'
and I told her "your listing it for $3K which is blue book for it, but it's
got at least $3K worth of body damage on it, you obviously have young
children since I see bikes and toys in the yard so you need a van, if
the only thing wrong with this one was cosmetic damage you would still
be driving it, but I see a brand new van in your garage. Your a single
mother since no husband in his right mind would choose a van for a
commuting vehicle when his wife already drives one, so that van in
the garage is the replacement for the one out here in the driveway,
and your replacing this one because there's more damage than just
cosmetic. Your asking a completely rediculous price because you
need the money to pay a credit card off that you probably overextended
for the new van. I'm not going to have any luck talking you down from $3K
to
what it's really worth, which is about $300 bucks, because you can't
afford to take the $2500 loss" Oh man did she glare! Pretty harsh
but she got off cheaply otherwise, I was the one who had to waste
45 minutes of time driving to and from a dry hole. And it may have
helped the next buyer.

Oh, I had already got through beating him down and we had agreed
on a price by then, and as this was a cherry vehicle and the luxury
version of it, he was definitely going to get what we settled on from
someone else. Truthfully I could have got the same vehicle, mechanically
equivalent, if I had just gone for a 3.3L Caravan extended wheelbase, for
probably
$1500 to $2000 less. But I was buying this for my wife, and most women
put far more stock in fripperies like leather seats and power windows
than they do the powertrain. And when your wife has just had a baby
and you have hormone city in your house, there's not a lot that can buy
you some peace and quiet during that time, you would gladly pay the
$1500-$2000 if it would do so (which this did). I think that's why I
never heard the "I was in labor for 8 hours with your child" argument
from her. ;-)

Actually, I think he was surprised simply because he hadn't sold a
vehicle before through private sale. He and his family lived in a very
nice house in a upper middle class section of the city and I got to
talking with him after we finished up, and he admitted that he had always
traded in his vehicles before, but this time around a friend of his had
helped him to price it and convinced him to go private sale, he would get
more money that way. I told him his friend was absolutely right, and I
also warned him that fake cashiers checks are easy to create on a PC,
and to never accept anything other than cash.

Ted

 

How come you know so much So all these years poor Cory Giles got
zero credit for ending the slaughter or killing at the Salem Witch
Trial? He did not do it for his family at all? Maybe he had no family
so that's how you know? I never read that before. Poor Corey. Why did
they pick on him? He had a nice property? At 80, it's unlikely he had
the visions and hallucinations. Still he did an awful lot for a
community that killed him in a particularly gruesome way. I gather he
did not have claustrophobia.

PBS had a quaint show on this. Probably the damp season and the ergot ?
fungus on the wheat gave the girls a bit of a hallucinogenic high, like
eating too many illegal mushrooms. The thing I loved was that recently
they excavated the house of the main preacher killer, and he was an
alcoholic with all these forbidden bottles hidden below the house. Just
another TV Bible Belt preacher like what's his name but up north.

Good reply, I'll try to remember that. You should compile a list. I
never think well on my feet, or for that matter, not so well when
sitting down, come to think of it...

That's a lot to work through. After driving 45 minutes I would have
been too bummed out to think all that through. You sound like a murder
mystery solver putting all the clues together. Not bad. Have you ever
thought about social science? We could use someone who can think. Most
just talk instead.

 

He didn't end it, he started the process of turnning people against it.

By the time the girls fingered the governers wife, (which is what
most people credit for ending it) much of the colony was disgusted
with the process. If the colony had still been lusting for blood, they
would have hung her too.

By the time he was accused he had already deeded the property over
to his son-in-law.

Because he was a member of the opposition group in church that had always
opposed the Putnams, long before the witchhunt started.

Rubbish. Ann Putnam publically apologized a few years later in church
and asked for forgiveness. She admitted the whole thing was fabricated.
She basically spent the rest of her life caring for her siblings (her
parents
died very young) never married, and died at age 37.

He was fired from the congregation 2 years later, and ran off to the
frontier and was never heard from again.

The Salem witch trials are often used as an example of the damage of
overzealous government but the real truth of it is that these are
extremely difficult for a modern American citizen to understand,
and they are NOT an example of overzealous government. They
are an example of religious fanatacism.

A lot of this is due to the educational system in this country being
scared to death of mentioning religion in any way shape or form.
The educational system harps over and over how the Pilgrims came
to America to be free of religious persecution. What it fails to
mention is that the Pilgrims had absolutely no intention whatsoever
of setting up a society that had any more religious tolerance than
the one they were fleeing. The Pilgrims totally bought into the idea
that the Church and the government are one and the same - they
just didn't like England at the time because THEY wern't in control.

What the witch trials did in America is they began the slow process,
which cumulated 80 years later in the Declaration of Independence
and the US Constitution, of getting people disillusioned with a lot of
the religious claptrap that the Church had been spewing out in order
to maintain control over the citenzry. The whole thing of the supernatural
and witchcraft was an invention of the Church used to control members
through fear. After the trials were over, because they had been so
incredibly bad and so many people who had been previously regarded
as pious members of the community had been either hung or imprisioned,
people began to become disillusioned with the idea of the supernatural
devil and his legions or evil imps hiding behind every door. Many of
the church leaders felt personally responsible for the carnage and they
turned their back on the idea of the supernatural devil, and began to
realize that for the church to survive that they must stop concentrating
on what they were afraid of - witchcraft, the devil, etc. - and start
concentrating on what the church had to offer that was good - love,
Jesus, etc.

And that is what began it - because the religious doctorine of Christianity
being about the love of Christ - is fundamentally incompatible with
government. Government is mostly about telling people what to do
who don't want to do it and that hasn't changed even today.

If you understand this you will see how unsatisfying the Salem
witch trials are as an analogy to government abuse. Look at what
happened afterwards - none of the girls were sent to prision or
hanged for bearing false witness - which is not only a tremendous
secular crime but a terible religious crime - it's specifically forbidden
in the 10 commandments. Only one of them - Ann Putnam - made
any kind of public apology or atonement for her role. From a
secular viewpoint, these girls committed terrible crimes and got off
scott free. But if you look at it from a Christian point of view, what
happened is that these girls were forgiven, as Christ teaches to forgive,
and Christ does not demand a public atonement, either, thus it is
not for us to judge even the girls who never admitted they were lying,
as we don't know what they really admitted to Christ in their hearts.

Well, by that time I had looked at at least a dozen vans, and all of them
either had serious problems which the sellers were trying to hide (rather
badly) or they were tremendously overpriced for what they were, and I
had seen the same deal so many times before that I had figured it out
and was just getting pissed off that my time was being wasted.

There's a lot of people out there who simply don't think ahead - they
own a vehicle and drive it for a few years, never maintaining it, then
one day it breaks down and when they go to a garage, the mechanic
looks at it and just shakes his head, there's just too much stuff that
needs fixing. So the mechanic tells them the old "this will cost more
to fix than it's worth" Now, what that is really translated to is "you
have beat this poor piece of shit to the ground, sell it to a wrecker for
$50 and go find another $2000 vehicle to beat to the ground, ya
damn (ab)user." But what these people think is "Oh, I deserve a nice
new car!" and they run out to a car dealer and spend too much
money on a new piece of shit. Of course, the new car dealer isn't
going to give them squat in trade in value for an old beat up POS so
they don't trade it in. Then, a month later all the bills are piling up
for the down payment, the insurance and all that, and they absolutely
must have $3K to pay all that off, so they put an ad in the paper for
their old car. Then they get a couple dozen calls, and a dozen people
come out that week to look at their car and nobody buys it, so they
keep relisting it in the paper the next week.

Eventually after about a month or two, they finally figure out that they
aren't going to get $3K out of it and then they drop the price, and then
it sells.

This is why there's so many ads in the paper that are just bogus. I
estimate about 3/4 of them are overpriced POS that is still in the
relist over and over phase. And the correctly priced stuff sells as soon as
it
lists, so you really have a very narrow window when the paper
comes out - less than 24 hours - where you can make a decent
deal. It's very frustrating to go out on a bogus vehicle sale because
all the time that you wasting looking at something that is obviously
mis-advertised, the stuff that is good that week is disappearing

Ted