Sebring---- SUDDEN ACCELERATION

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? It's a scientific principle that

ONCE AGAIN DANIEL STERN RAMBLES ON, YOU ARE SO WRONG PAL ((READ ON )

a.. Oct 4, 1996 : Chrysler disclosed in a letter to the Office of Defects
Investigation that it knew of 98 incidents of unintended acceleration
between 1993 and 1996 involving Cherokees and another 241 involving Grand
Cherokees ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER
a.. A group of independent engineering experts claims to have uncovered a
defect specific in the 1993-96 5.2 litre V8 Grand Cherokee. If cruise
control is left in the ON position a short to ground in the power control
module connector can cause the vehicle's engine to race. The short is said
to be caused by water, moisture etc. getting into the connector and causing
corrosion. ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER : Strategic
Safety. Special investigation Chrysler Cherokee 1998

 

Two things...

1) An out of court settlement in no way constitutes proof that
what was claimed actually happened.

2) WRT spark plugs, you are actually claiming that if I install
Autolite, NGK, AC Delco or some brand other than Champion spark
plugs in a 1985 ChryCo vehicle with a turbo charger, start the
engine, disconnect the coolant sensor and check the ignition
timing with a stroboscopic timing light, I'll see different
timing setting between the different brands of spark plugs?

 

The service department that you work in must have to give away an
awful lot of free service work if you can't tell the difference
between a 2002 Chrysler Sebring with a 3.0 liter engine and
1993-96 Jeep Cherokees and Grand Cherokees with 5.2 liter engines.

 

1) An out of court settlement in no way constitutes proof that
what was claimed actually happened.

DONT NEED TO , http://www.antony-anderson.com/cruise/6-freq.htm read on

a.. Oct 4, 1996 : Chrysler disclosed in a letter to the Office of Defects
Investigation that it knew of 98 incidents of unintended acceleration
between 1993 and 1996 involving Cherokees and another 241 involving Grand
Cherokees ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER
a.. A group of independent engineering experts claims to have uncovered a
defect specific in the 1993-96 5.2 litre V8 Grand Cherokee. If cruise
control is left in the ON position a short to ground in the power control
module connector can cause the vehicle's engine to race. The short is said
to be caused by water, moisture etc. getting into the connector and causing
corrosion. ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER : Strategic
Safety. Special investigation Chrysler Cherokee 1998

2) WRT spark plugs, you are actually claiming that if I install

I AM SAYING. and not sure of all the plugs that were affected but i dont see
many of these vehicles in the shop. But a/c delco and Bosch plugs and some
others would cause the timing to flucuate severly at idle, CUST COMPLAINT
idles very rough, Naturally if you disconnect the coolant sensor it goes
into limp , fan turns on and the timing is back to base timing and you
would get a steady reading. Idle on those vehicles were controlled by
timing, Stern is wrong.. Cuda, the next time you work on one. See it for
your self. You may have already had them in the shop, put a timing lite on
it and watch the mark, with thecoolant sensor connected, then install
champion plugs and put the lite on it and see how stable the mark is, And
then notice how smooth the idle is

 

OMG are you such the idiot you are, Do you have any common sense what so
ever??

 

Believe it or don't, he actually "thinks" this. Below are his idiotic,
stupid, ignorant and baseless claims on the topic:

First this:

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler
From: "damnnickname" <>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:04:13 -0500
Subject: Re: 85 turbo - coughs on heavy accel load

DO NOT USE PLATINUM PLUGS OR BOSH PLUGS< USE ONLY CHAMPION< i belive they
were rn12yc, some plugs will mess with the timing of the power module and
cause all kinds of idle problems. Almost like it is searching because the
timing is flucuating so bad

===

When called on his idiocy, he responded as followed:

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler
From: "maxpower" <>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:05:13 -0500
Subject: Re: 85 turbo - coughs on heavy accel load

Idle was controlled by the timing back then, With autolite/bosh and some
other plugs.I say use Champion because I no that was the only one that I
know didnt create a problem. The Power Module saw the resistors in them
and caused the timing to jump all over, causing extreme idle problems
hesitation problems and more I would bet you are one of those guys that
put everypart on the car untill given up and told your cust to take it to
the dealer... Is that so? The next time you get one of these vehicles, put
a timing lite on it and see for youself, but then again I bet you dont
know how to use one and here once again, you have no clue what you are
talking about

====

So, to answer your question: Yes. In what passes for the brain between
maxpower's ears, the 1985 Chrysler 2-module engine management system was
so advanced that it actually knew the difference between Champion's 10kohm
spark plug resistors and Autolite's 10kohm spark plug resistors and
Bosch's 10kohm spark plug resistors, and if it saw anything other than
Champion spark plugs, it went wild 'n' crazy and threw a timing disco
party. Amazing feats o' magic, eh?

-DS

 

Okay, now where is the connection between the Jeeps, Fords,
Buicks and radar guns aimed under the hood cited in your link and
the 2002 Chrysler Sebring?
All you've managed to do Glen is point out that there have been
failures associated with -some- cruise control systems, that does
not mean that all cruise controls or even this cruise control
will behave or -did- behave the same.

Ever do a WOT test on an engine with it in gear with an engine
analyzer connected?
Ever check the stall speed of a torque convertor?

I have, hundreds of times, and not once were the vehicles brakes
incapable of holding the car back.

Whoa, stop right there.
Then the spark plugs per-se are not causing the timing change.
If the plugs don't change the base timing (which you seem to
agree to) then the only thing that can be changing the timing is
a signal sent to the logic module (since disconnecting the
coolant sensor takes the logic module out of the picture), that
signal most likely being from the knock sensor, due to the wrong
heat range spark plug being used, IOWs, the same result would
happen if the wrong heat range Champion spark plug were to be
used, so it is NOT the brand of spark plug that is causing the
problem, it is the implementation of heat ranges, the practice of
part number overlap that is the actual cause.
Specifically; the vehicles in question had the capability to
retard timing for individual cylinders.
Specifically: you claimed that the power module "sees" something
from the plugs in question, yet the power module (for the sake of
this discussion) only switches the coil primary, and whether or
not the coolant sensor connector is connected or not, the power
modules function in this regard does not change.

I can tell you specifically which AC Delco and which Bosch spark
plugs caused the problems that you observed;
Delco: it was the Rapid Fires
Bosch: it was any of their gimmicky crappy platinum plugs.
Why? because those two are the biggest offenders in the "one
part number fits 5 heat ranges, the customer will never know and
we couldn't give a damn--it's all about the bucks" game.

I don't disbelieve what you saw Glen, but I do have issues with
your explanation of why and how.

 

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? It's a scientific principle that

HEY GEAR HEAD what does this have to do with what kind of car it is, are you
really that stupid or do you just pretend to be?
Lets talk gearhead.. give me a phone number or your yahoo id so i can im
you. since obiviously you wish to speak more and more and become close
friends. I was explaining this is possible that the accident could be
related to the cruise control servo. Sorry if i left out the finer anal
details. But that is why you are here to pick them up correct .

 

Like i said, see it for yourself, im not going to make you believe it. The
computer sees it and tries to maintian correct idle by controlling the
timing

All you've managed to do Glen is point out that there have been
failures associated with -some- cruise control systems, that does
not mean that all cruise controls or even this cruise control
will behave or -did- behave the same.
EXACTLY!!! thats all i was trying to do..TRY TO READ WHAT I SAID RATHER
THEN TRY TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT OUT OF IT,,,,, for the lame I made it easier,
read below

It was awhile ago
and cant remember the details. It was not a particular model or make vehicle
either. I believe it had something to do with the vent valve on the servo.
CAN YOU READ IT EASIER NOW IT SAYS NO A PARTICULAR MAKE???
YOUR BUTT BUDDY STERN SAID IT WASNT POSSIBLE< get you head out of his ass

 

Yes I do, which is why I ask; what does 4 model years of Jeep
have to do with this 2002 Chrysler Sebring?

I'll start with the simple stuff.

What parts interchange between the Jeeps mentioned and the
Sebring in the subject line? (besides the oil filter)

 

YOU GOT IT!!!!
NOW FOR YOUR NEXT ISSURE MR STERN< DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT?

Nope, it didn't happen that way. Your wife hit the gas without knowing it,
period. I know it's less embarrassing and less expensive for her to blame
it on the car, but cars do not behave so much as they are behaved upon.

YOUR GOING TO TELL THIS OP THAT HIS WIFE IS CRAZY CAUSE THE CRUSIE SERVOR
COUDLNT DO THIS??

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? It's a scientific principle that
says the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Now, which is
simpler? A or B?

A: Your wife stepped on the wrong pedal.

B: The cruise control on/off switch, the cruise control "set" switch, the
brake light and cruise-kill switch, and the SBEC "no cruise control under
30MPH, and only in the Forward direction" programming all failed at the
same time, the cruise control engaged and pulled the throttle wide open.
LETS HEAR ANOTHER LAME ANSWER, or is your head inside cudas now?? loose the
ego problem and stop harping, stop shooting your mouth off

Not below 30 mph with your foot on the brake and the trans in "Reverse",
it wouldn't....ANOTHER LAME STUPID REPLY BY THE BULLSHITTER HIMSELF< IN
BLACK AND WHITE

 

Yes, I'd definitely think that an attorney would be an authority on
electronic systems. Major corporations settle law suits all of the time
whether they feel they are at fault or not. The decision is based on
economics, not technical reality. The Crown Vic may well have a defect,
but this hardly establishes that.


Matt

 

. The hysterical media reports nearly ruined Audi, though
OR WAS IT POSSIBLE THERE WAS A PROBLEM
WERE YOU IN HER CAR DOWN BY HER FEET TO SEE THIS MR STERN?? HOW DO YOU BASE
YOUR FINDINGS MR STERN?
it wouldn't
IS THIS REALLY TRUE< I WANT TO HEAR IT ONE MORE TIME PLEASE

Ah, right, here we go with the "sudden, full, completely unintended
activation of the cruise control despite the car being in reverse, below
the threshhold speed AND the brakes allegedly applied" theory. THAT IS
CORRECT

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? It's a scientific principle that
says the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Now, which is
simpler? A or B?AND WE WILL LET MR STERN ANSWER THIS ONE, PICK YOUR ANSWER
PAL






Believe it or don't, he actually "thinks" this. Above are his idiotic,
stupid, ignorant and baseless claims on the topic:

 

HEY GEAR HEAD what does this have to do with what kind of car it is, are you
really that stupid or do you just pretend to be?[/QUOTE]

Stupid would be you. What else would explain your lack of ability
to operate a newsreader, YOUR newsreader.
You have posts from multiple authors attributed to me, that makes
you a king sized bozo and a person not to be taken seriously.

Now, why do you suppose the problem with Jeep cruise controls
stops at MY 1996?
What makes you think that just because there was a problem with
Jeep cruise controls in MY 1993, 94, 95 and 96, there is a
problem with 2002 Chrysler Sebring cruise controls?

I have plenty of friends, even the more stupid ones are much
smarter than you.

And it is possible that it isn't related to the cruise control,
but citing incidences of ten year old Jeeps and 18 year old Fords
as any way related is just plain ignorant.
Camshaft failures were real common on 70s era Chevrolets and
Oldsmobiles, maybe you should warn the OP about -that- also.
Something like;
ATTENTION
Certain Chevrolet and Oldsmobile engines produced in the 1970s
suffered from premature camshaft wear, since you own a 2002
Chrysler Sebring, you should be aware that there is a possibility
of premature camshaft wear based upon evidence obtained when
reviewing failure records of the previously mentioned General
Motors divisions.

It's got nothing to do with the "details" it has a lot to do with
what should be obvious, like the make and model year.

 

Ok, back to how I use my newsgroup and how I Post. And my spelling!! I cant
talk to a child as yourself

Stupid would be you. What else would explain your lack of ability
to operate a newsreader, YOUR newsreader.
You have posts from multiple authors attributed to me, that makes
you a king sized bozo and a person not to be taken seriously.

Now, why do you suppose the problem with Jeep cruise controls
stops at MY 1996?
What makes you think that just because there was a problem with
Jeep cruise controls in MY 1993, 94, 95 and 96, there is a
problem with 2002 Chrysler Sebring cruise controls?

I have plenty of friends, even the more stupid ones are much
smarter than you.

And it is possible that it isn't related to the cruise control,
but citing incidences of ten year old Jeeps and 18 year old Fords
as any way related is just plain ignorant.
Camshaft failures were real common on 70s era Chevrolets and
Oldsmobiles, maybe you should warn the OP about -that- also.
Something like;
ATTENTION
Certain Chevrolet and Oldsmobile engines produced in the 1970s
suffered from premature camshaft wear, since you own a 2002
Chrysler Sebring, you should be aware that there is a possibility
of premature camshaft wear based upon evidence obtained when
reviewing failure records of the previously mentioned General
Motors divisions.

It's got nothing to do with the "details" it has a lot to do with
what should be obvious, like the make and model year.[/QUOTE]

 

Oct 4, 1996 : Chrysler disclosed in a letter to the Office of Defects
Investigation that it knew of 98 incidents of unintended acceleration
between 1993 and 1996 involving Cherokees and another 241 involving Grand
Cherokees ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER
a.. A group of independent engineering experts claims to have uncovered a
defect specific in the 1993-96 5.2 litre V8 Grand Cherokee. If cruise
control is left in the ON position a short to ground in the power control
module connector can cause the vehicle's engine to race. The short is said
to be caused by water, moisture etc. getting into the connector and causing
corrosion. ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER : Strategic
Safety. Special investigation Chrysler Cherokee 1998

That was 1996, But it is possible that it can happen, as it is possible that
more problems are happening to this day. The only thing I was saying, is
that I have talked about this happening a few yrs ago in a class and it may
not have been the driver hitting the wrong pedal, But for some of the
people...it isnt possible unless it has acually happened to them, such as
Daniel Stern and his side kick AARCUDA

 

Whoa, now you're claiming that it's the *computer* that "sees" it.
Before, you had claimed that it was the "Power Module."
You DO realize that those are two distinct, different components,
don't you Mr. Bigshotdealershiptechnician?

You don't get it, you probably never will.
You are unprofessional and irresponsible.
If Chrysler ever got wind of what you're posting in this thread,
you'd be blacklisted from every dealership on the planet.
Your comments are pure conjecture with NO basis in fact.
You're probably a gun grabber.
You are a buffoon, you can't keep two different components
straight, hell, you can't tell a Ford from a Jeep from a Chrysler
from a Buick, logic escapes you, odds are you work the wash rack
and sneak an occasional peek over a real mechanics shoulder,
because no person who repairs automobiles for a living could be
as stone cold dense as you.

 

Idle was controlled by *what*?

 

Your posts look like shit, if I reply, my newsreaders spell
checker lights up like Las Vegas during a light bulb convention,
your replies run into the text of the person that you're replying
to, you fail at skills that are normally achieved by the age of
ten, and your logic and reasoning skills mimic those of a
Yorkshire Terrier, your stories change which makes them less than
believable, you insist on things that you obviously don't even
have a basic understanding of, hipcrime spam attacks are easier
to read than one of your posts, one can only imagine how many
hours per week your service manager has to waste trying to
decipher what you've documented on your repair orders, you've
shown evidence that you don't understand the basics of how an
internal combustion engine operates, you're a parts changer, you
embody every complaint ever lodged against Jiffy Lube, you
mis-attribute posts, 78.6% of what you post makes no sense at all.

 

That is so sad, Power module was the term used in 85. Im so sorry for saying
it was a computer, I really didnt mean to confuse you.. Im glad you could
figure out what I meant. Boy I sure hope Chrysler didnt see me write that..
I have no more comments to you on this