Roller Lifter Failure Help

Has anybody experienced lifter failure with MOPAR roller lifters in the 3.3
Liter V-6? I am trying to locate the source of a clatter that makes my
engine sound like a diesel and I have not pulled the heads yet but have
found no indications of rocker-arm trouble. Is there a repair history
regarding the camshaft/valvetrain on a 1998 3.3 liter? I only have
78000miles and planned to drive it for another 3 years! Any help is
appreciated.

Jake.

 

I heard that some 3.3 have a problem with broken rocker studs, but that
would make it run horrible, also do all 3.3's run roller lifters, on mine my
lifters clatter on cold start ups if I run cheap fram oil filters that drain
out after sitting overnight! With ac or motorcraft oil filters I don't have
that problem

 

The "allpar" site talks about broken rocker arm pedestals but suggests that
the problem was corrected "early-on". I am not sure which years were
affected but my '98 is good. The clattering only begins when my engine is
warm? Interesting observation with the oil filters, I will pay attention to
that.
Thanks, Jake.

 

There's an excellent website by Russ Knize where he has studied most of the
main oil filters and found many of the big brand names are just plain junk.
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

Best was the Mobile 1 filter & Purolator (abet both expensive.) Motorcraft
was second best (best bang for the buck).

Fram was junk (as you have found - but the problems go far worst than that.)
The media end caps are cardboard, glued in place and can leak allowing dirty
oil to drain back into crankcase. <Q> "If you have a noisy valve train at
startup, this filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and
are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak. The backplate
has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow." <Q/>
Fram is manufactured by Allied Signal, Inc.

Worst was MoPar. <Q> "These filters are Frams, Purolators, or Wixes. Mopar
does not manufacture it's own filters, nor do they require anything special
from these manufacturers. Since they basically paint them a different
color, stamp them with a Mopar logo, and double the price, there is no
reason to buy them. Sadly, the Mopar Severe Duty 53020311 filter is
actually the worst filter of them all. It is a Fram Extra Guard." <Q/>

In his "Filters to Avoid": Fram, Penzoil, Quaker State.

Here's what he said about Motorcraft "This was a Purolator hybrid. It had
the Premium Plus case (anti-drainback valve, gasket, etc), but with a Pure
One filter element. This is a cheap way to get a Purolator Pure One. It is
sold at many locations including AutoZone, Pep Boys, etc. "

There used to be more info then is currently on the site, but apparently he
had to take it off because of a legal threat. It dealt with things like gaps
between the filter media and the shell which allowed dirty oil to bypass the
media all together, and with actual failures of the can itself (allowing
loss of oil.)

Here is the link to his website if you car to read all of his test findings
and comments. While not a definitive study, it is quite an eye-opener for
anyone who has never thought about one of the most critical elements in
his/her car. A filter that doesn't filter properly, or clogs forcing the oil
to bypass, or cracks and leaks, or allows dirty oil to drain back into the
crankcase or several other negative factors; can place an expensive engine
in real jeopardy.

Normally I use Motorcraft, but the local AutoZone is running a Mobile 1 sale
& I picked up a Mobile 1 filter today (along with 6 qts of Mobile 1).

 

But I reckon that if I want to keep the benefits of my 7-yr/70K Chrysler
warranty (which was an additional freebie when we bought our 300M back
in early '02) it's best to have it serviced at a Chrysler dealership --
which can be expected to use Mopar filters, even if they are junk.

Perce

 

Purolator - which one? They have two. The Pure One™ is the one to get.
Why do you say it's expensive - $4 to $5 is not expensive for a good
oil filter. $8 or $10 maybe you could say is expensive.

I'm not a fan of Fram or Allied Signal, but you make the same dishonest
mistake many people repeat: Your comments apply to the bottom end filter
of the Fram line - once again, you treat them all as if they are one -
they are not. The Tough Guard is actually a good filter - not perfect,
but good.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

I'm not a fan of Fram or Allied Signal, but you make the same dishonest

The word "good" is relative.
Perhaps this letter from a Fram Engineer would change your mind.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilter-fram1.txt
(BTW, the Tough Guard still has paper end caps.)
You also might be interested in this site as well:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

 

I would have said that there's no way of knowing who actually wrote that
letter. But you know what - after working in modern industry (incuding
automotive manufacturing)for over 25 years, it rings too true to life*.
IOW, I don't doubt that it is genuine. Such is industry run by MBA's.

*"FRAM's marketers admitted that there was just about no way the public
could ever prove that an oil filter contributed, or did not prevent,
engine damage. The only thing FRAM tested for was can burst strength."

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Which is really sad, as I've heard of Frams having burst failures on
engines developing high oil pressures - notably the VW G60, also I have
heard of an issue with a Diesel (Cummins? I forget)

nate

 

No, you figure wrong. The 7/70 warranty does not depend on getting it
serviced at the dealer.

 

I didn't mean that the warranty *depends on* having it serviced at a
Chrysler dealership. I meant that it might be easier to *prove* that it
has been serviced properly if the service records are all in a dealer's
computer system.

If I have the vehicle serviced sometimes at "Joe's Auto Service and
Adult Bookstore" and sometimes at JiffyLube, wouldn't it be much easier
for DC to argue that the work was done by incompetents and refuse to pay up?

Perce

 

And you "reckon" this...how, exactly? It's not so.

 

Which is true. When I was with DC, the service Rep I worked with loved deny
paying warranty to people who did not service there vehicles properly. If
you were a "good"customer at the dealership, which a "good" customer is one
who actually brought to the dealership a few times for the life of the
warranty. If you did not, and you had no receipts of having it serviced
properly (ie 4 oil changes a year, he would not cover anything for the
customer. And I had to agree with him. The most belligerent customers
complaining, were people how bought the vehicle new, and never brought it to
the dealership once until after the warranty was over, and wanted DC to pay.
And they thought being mouthy, and condacending was going to make the reps
give them goodwill? Guess what, if you don't have service records properly
documenting what service was performed DC does not have to do Jack for you
if something happens. Going to the dealer for your servicing automatically
creates the service records for you.

 

I had to purchase an extended warrantee (as my Sebring was a rental) and my
dealer told me that all I had to do was keep records of all my off-dealer
service. When I asked what kind of records, he indicated receipts that
showed the date and work done (such as oil change, etc.) You believe you
are right about the dealer's records, as all work is recorded against the
VIN and is available on a nationwide basis. He was even able to pull up the
service records from Avis (who owned the car prior) because Chrysler owns
Avis.

 

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

Maybe so, but....

As can bee seen in countless other posts (see the "3 quarts low"
thread), getting work done at a dealer does NOTHING to prevent the work
from actually BEING DONE by incompetents. That's why I change my own oil.