RIP 96 Town & Country

My wife's Town & Country LXI was making noise and the air condition died.
Just got a call from the dealer. 1. The transmission differential pin is
loose because of a cracked case. 2. EGR valve is bad. 3. Needs new rear
brakes, and 4. Rear coolant tubes need replacement.

Nice vehicle and it got us to 147,000 miles. My previous Chrysler mini-van
went through several transmissions. I would not hurt so bad if I had not
just put in $900.00 to replace all the suspension pieces and $170 into the
front rotors and pads. Donations cheerfully accepted.

Richard.

 

I left out the fact that they told me it also needs a new front wheel
bearing because it is "loose".

Richard.

 

You have an out-of-warranty vehicle and you take it to the *dealer*?!

DS

 

Yes because I purchased it there and I still get free oil changes (I give
them the Mobil 1, they do the rest). But they did try to charge me $220.00
in diagnosis charges until I told them to do better. They took off one of
the three fixed charges.

Richard.

 

The only part that sounds expensive is the tranny case. Even then,
maybe a used tranny could be swapped in. If the vehicle has been fairly
reliable, might still be good economy to fix it and keep driving.


Matt

 

I was thinking the same thing. But the ac died and that could be
expensive too.

 

If it's still straight and clean, and you have been running it on Mobil-1,
then
assuming the trans is non-functional and the AC is busted, you probably
won't
get more than $1000 for it, if that, if you just put it in the paper right
now.

But, if you dropping $1500-$2000 into a transmission swap for a
remanufactured
transmission, you probably could sell it for roughly in the $5000-$6000
range, even with the mileage it has on it.

In short, this is definitely one of those vehicles that even if you can't
stand the
sight of it and plan on selling it immediately, your going to make money if
you
invest in a new transmission. If you really don't want to do so, let us
know what
state your in, if your anywhere near me I would come buy it from you!

Ted

 

Check the NADA book. It would be a miracle if you could get $5,000 for
a 96 with high mileage. I have a 96 with 141,000 that is in great
running condition. I just bought an 03, but decided to keep the 96 and
drive it till it dies as it is worth only about $3,000, maybe $4,000 if
I can find a sucker.


Matt

 

The only part that sounds expensive is the tranny case. Even then, maybe a
used tranny could be swapped in. If the vehicle has been fairly reliable,
might still be good economy to fix it and keep driving.
My Saab turbo also lost its evaporator. The dealer wanted $1,000 and no
airconditioner shop would even look at it. I was able to pull the part in
about 5 min, drove to the junk yard and pulled one from a junker in 5 min
and $35.00. It took me 5 min to put it in. Total time including the drive to
the yard, 2 hr. Total cost, about $60.00 including the can of juice (yes I
know, you can't do this yourself any longer). I suspect the part is harder
to get at in the Chrysler. The dealer wants over $1,000.00.

Richard.

 

What part of the AC died?. Some parts for that year are covered under a
known problem covered in a TSB. It's not a recall, so it was a long talk
with my dealer with the TSB in hand on the evap problem, but they did it
for free. If your having other work done, they should do the AC for
free, if it's the evaporator.

Ken

 

It is the evaporator; I'll ask.

Richard.

 

Ah, but notice I said "straight and clean" You said your van is in great
running condition. Great Running is auto parlance for it runs fine, but
the body is kind of beat up.

Check Kelly Blue Book. straight and clean on a 96T&C with his mileage
actually shows in the $7K range. I know from experience KBB usually
runs a bit on the optimistic side, NADA runs on the pessimistic side. Given
that we are talking about a van that's got a tranny with only a few hundred
miles on it (because you have to base the value on the van with a rebuilt
tranny just installed in it) in terms of value, think optimistic.

The operative word here is how clean and straight it is. If it's got
peeling paint
or the paint isn't shiny, rust, noticable dents, holes in the carpet, etc.
then yes,
3000-4000 is more like it. As a lot of these went into families with kids,
the kids tended
to trash the vehicles more so, it's harder to find really clean specimens.

Also of course, I'm talking private sale figures. Trade in is a different
ballgame,
wack $2K off private sale price to get trade in price, is my experience.

Ted

 

Oops, it didn't register that he has a T&C! I read right past that. I
have a Grand Voyager so not comparable in value at all. Even more
reason to consider repairing it and driving it.

I was thinking trade-in mainly, but yes if you can find a private
sucker, you can get much more money!


Matt

 

Heh, yah, everyone forgets that car dealers have a lot more overhead
than a guy taking an advert out in the Sunday paper.

I will bet a lunch that if he does a title search on the VIN number of his
van a year from now, he's going to find it's in service.

Sounds like he's convinced that it's junk, though. Usually I find that
once people have talked themselves into this, they are going to dump
the car no matter how logical the argument is to keep it. Sometimes
it's fear of the unknown, sometimes it's an unconscious resentment
against the machine for failing and costing money, sometimes it's just
a mental crutch to use to justify to themselves why they 'need' that new
car that they actually only 'want' Only rarely is it based on reasoning
on the evidence. In his case I'll bet he hasn't even called around to
tranny shops for competitive estimates.

Ted

 

Well Ted; I did call around. A junk yard part would cost over $1,000.00. A
rebuild would cost over $1,700.00. Not a bad deal if:
It did not also need a new evaporator, new front wheel bearings, new
rear heater hoses, new rear brakes, and a new EGR valve, etc. A dealer, on a
new 2004 Limited, offered me over $3,000.00 for it in its current condition.
The new Limited with DVD monitor, moving pedals, full spare, 6 disk changer
and sunroof will cost me just over $28,000.00. I took the deal.

Richard.

 

Ted, looks like my estimate wasn't all that far off after all!


Matt

 

The dealer is going to spend the $1700 for a rebuild tranny, (actually his
cost will be more like $1100 because he provides the labor) probably
$50 for heater hoses, squirt Stop Leak into the A/C, then put it on the
lot for $6500 with a 30 day warranty that excludes wearables and
probably get that, or close to it. By the time summer rolls around and
the new owner figures out the A/C is busted it's going to be long off
warranty. (and who knows, the stop leak might even hold anyway)

Ted

 

Richard, as I've said before in this group I am very happy that folks like
you are out there, because otherwise people like me would not have the
high quality in used vehicles available to us in the used market, when we go
buy our cars.

Seriously, I know that you
feel that you got $3K from the dealer, but I assure you, coming from a
family with a member that has worked as a used car manager at various
dealerships for most of his career, that the pricing that was given to you
was fiction. In reality the dealership could have gone down another $2K
on the price of the new 2004 Limited, if you had bargained hard enough,
and he didn't have to deal with a trade in. Most likely what happened is
you either told him you had a trade in up front and he held a bit of reserve
on the price so as to give you an inflated trade in value and make you feel
good, or if you had really pushed down that extra $2K and sprang the
trade in on him at the last minute, he would have only given you $1K for it.
If your dealer is pretty high-end, and decides to not even screw around
with your van, they are going to wholesale it off and they will get $1K for
it.

But of course, since you wouldn't have been able to get more than $1K
off the street for it yourself, it's probably easier for you (as it is for
most people) to
simply give the dealer the used vehicle and try to argue up it's trade in
value.
After all, it's always harder to come in and say "I want that new car" then
try
to explain why it's so worthless that your not going to pay what they are
asking. And with a $3K trade in allowance for your used van, you ended
up at the same place as if you had sold it for $1K, then beaten the price
on the new vehicle down another $2K. Your dealer really ended up doing
you a favor in this case since now you don't have to dispose of the used
van.

If you don't believe any of this, like I said just wait 6 months and do a
VIN
search at CARFAX. Your going to find that your van was sold, not scrapped.

Like I said previously, if you dropped $1500-$2000 into a transmission swap
for a remanufactured transmission, you probably could sell it for roughly
in the $5000-$6000 range, even with the mileage it has on it. A dealer
is going to do exactly this, unless you live in Arizona, they aren't going
to
repair the A/C, it's winter right now. They will just hope the buyer
doesen't
notice the broken A/C and frankly a lot of buyers wouldn't. And the rest
of the stuff is piddly and cheap to fix, and a used vehicle buyer is
probably not
going to notice it. And they are going to make more money on it
because their cost to fix the tranny is lower than yours, and with a vehicle
like that it's very easy to find some young single mother or young family
who has no or bad credit and sell it to them for $7K and finance that.

The main point I was trying to make is that your van is by no means used up
and was definitely worth putting money into a rebuilt trans. It's far from
RIP.
But I do understand that not everyone out there wants to spend the time
dealing with a used vehicle, and there is nothing wrong with this as long as
you
know what's what.

Ted

 

Very likely, but doesn't change what the van was worth to the original
owner, which was in the range I first posted.

Matt

 

Richard, as I've said before in this group I am very happy that folks like

Here is the test Ted. See if you can purchase a new Limited with a sunroof,
DVD LCD monitor, and full size spare for $31,000.00 after current rebates
are applied. If you can than I was taken "advantage" of. I did negotiate the
best deal without mention of the trade-in.

Richard.