Replaced radiator, now it wont start :(

Not necessarily.

If it's a cheap meter and it's reading a bit high that could be valid. If
the
starter is not engaging at all, and turning the key to start turns off other
loads (like headlights), it's quite normal to see a voltage rise like this.

At this point, you have to look why the starter is not engaging, and the
next step is to see if the solenoid is triggering. If it is, then the
problem
is in the high-current patch between the solenoid and the starter.
I had an older Dodge Caravan that the 'transfer bar' was pitted and
had this exact symptom. I couldn't get a replacement part on a Sunday,
so I took it apart and put it back together with the bolts used for
contact rotated 180 degrees (they were pitted only on one side of the
bolthead so this exposed it to fresh metal) and put it back together.
I picked up new parts from the dealer on Monday, but they stayed in
the glove box for 10 years and were still there when the van was gone.

If the problem is no signal to trigger the solenoid, then you have to
backtrack from there.

 

I agree with the others - bad meter or you're not using it right. No
way you have over 13 volts anywhere with the engine not running and no
charger on it.

You need to be looking at the *output* side of the solenoid
contacts/input to the starter motor - *not* the hot wire from the
battery to the solenoid.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Bull Crap. The chances of an electronic meter being 40% off is nil.
Hell I've got a handful of meters here that came from Harbor Freight
for $1 each. You aren't going to get much cheaper than that and they
are dead on every time.

To the OP:
You need to have the meter on the DC Volt scale and on the setting
somewhere near 20V (depends on the scales on your meter) Mae sure you
have the leads plugged in to the right two hole. The black one should
be in the common and the red in the voltage (usually indicated by a
straight line for DC and a wave line for AC and the letter V). Start
by checking the voltage across the battery terminals. This will tell
you that the battery is charged and that the meter is set and working
properly. Voltage should read somewhere close to 12v.

You want the black lead to go to ground and the red lead to go to the
power lug on the starter itself (not the solenoid). It should read
0.0 until you turn the key to crank then it should go to whatever
voltage the battery was at from the step above. Decimal points don't
matter but if you read 12v at the battery and 8 volts at the starter
then you know you either have a bad connection / bad points in the
solenoid or the engine is locked up and the starter can't move it. If
the engine is locked up the cables should get warm to the touch after
a few seconds of trying to crank.

CAUTION: You most likely have bad contacts in the starter as others
here have said. Those contacts can suddenly work again at any point
in time! You should connect your meter using alligator clip leads and
have yourself safely away from the car when someone attempts to crank
it. If it cranks while you are under there holding leads to the
starter and not expecting it you will jump and that jump could cause
you a great deal of injury. You can have the car fixed but you can't
necessarily get a mangled arm put back right again.

Steve B.

 

Bull Crap? You obviously don't know anything about meters!

I've seen a cheap flea market meters read a whole volt offset across the
board. While that is a cheap meter, better meters rarely have problems
like this.

I've seen an otherwise decent B&K meter read over 1.5x high on every
scale as the battery went weak. Most meters don't do this until well
after the batteries are too way too low for use, but if someone doesn't
notice the battery indicator.

In either case, you can still use the meter to see a trend or what is going
on, it's just not valid for quantitative measurements.

Before you say "Bull Crap", learn about what you speak!

 

That's nice but the OP said he was reading 17v. Don't know where you
live but here 17 - 12 = more than 1

And I've seen catfish fall from the sky. Neither is even remotely
likely to be happening in the OPs case./

Bull Crap. You are so full of it your hair is brown.

Steve B.

 

Now YOU don't know what you're talking about. Vehicles are not 12v!
It's the nominal voltage if you want to pick nits. And that seems to be the
extent of your ability in this.

Why? Do you have hidden knowledge of this situation? Or are you
all powerful.

Just asking.

I'd have to ask what color your hair is. You may be mechanically inclined,
but you obviously know little or nothing about meters or how to use them
other then emperically. God forbid you have to use a meter that wasn't
'accurate'.

I really hope you're not in a position to service anything electrical in a
vehicle where a customer is paying for the service!

 

See my very first post, as well as recent ones, in this thread.

This particular starter/solenoid is not the type that you can rotate the
solenoid contacts 180°. Again - read my earlier posts in this thread.
I have this exact year and option package/engine Concorde, and I
replaced the solenoid plunger/contacts (Nippon Denso starter) just a
couple of months ago.

Yes - we (several of us) have been addressing that with the OP, giving
specific details.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Without knowing what kind of meter (analog or digital) or anything else
about it, if the batteries are going out, all bets are off about what
any reading means. IOW - I wouldn't draw any conclusions whatsoever
from the OP's post on his readings whether it's due to low batteries or
something else.

If a meter is reading 17 volts on a wire that can't possibly be at more
than 13 volts (engine not running), I don't draw any conclusions (other
than something is seriously wrong with the reading).

The tension between you two aside, I have to side with Steve on this.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

I'm just saying that a lot of non-electrical type people leave the meter in
the
box and forget about it. They don't use it for quantitative work on a
regular
enough basis to trust absolute readings. The meter may be in there for
weeks without use, then when they use it it's lucky to work at all.

In that case, even a bad meter still tells you something. A failing meter
may not be close at all to registering an accurate voltage, but you can
STILL use it to see what's going on. Does it matter that it reads 12v, or
14, or even 18? The meter is going to be used to see the 'trend' and
see 'what happens', not take a measurement. In fact, I'd go so far as
to say that 99% of the time with automotive work, a test lamp
would tell a good tech almost as much as a meter. Especially when it
comes to diagnosing a starter issue.

Sorry, I guess I just tripped off on the incredibly helpful comment
telling the original poster nothing other than that he didn't know how to
use a meter.

 

Again, I don't know how the do math where you live but down here in
the South 40% is more than a nit. This car hasn't run since the 27th
of August and the battery was charged on that date so it is reasonable
to expect his battery is still in the neighborhood of 12v. If he was
reading 13 and it should be 12.6 thats a nit... 5 volts on a 12v
system is not a nit.

Yes, God forbid I can't afford to run down to Harbor Freight and pick
up another DVM for $1.07. Have a handful running around here now and
each is as close to accurate as I will ever need to get. And yes, I
still have the Simpson with a needle for the stuff that matters but
have never needed it on a car.

Yeah Yeah Yeah. You don't know me and I don't know you. You really
shouldn't let old farts like me get so far under your skin. It isn't
healthy.

Steve B.

 

If a meter is reading 17 volts on a wire that can't possibly be at more

The OP is the same guy who hooked up the battery backwards in this
same car in the middle of July. Many people tried to help with that
problem. He never bothered to let us know if anything helped or what
became of the car. He didn't share that incident with the group this
time even though that kind of info would be kind of handy to have when
helping to troubleshoot an electrical problem.

Then the radiator and now the starter and the meter that reads 17v...

Steve B.

 

Don't worry, it's not the skin!

Hmm, you're a cantankerous piss. Probably someone I'd share a beer
with if we met in person. After we both got done pissing.

Mike

 

Minor Correction: He never said 17 VOLTS. He just said 17. That is why I
asked if it was set to voltage. If it was, then my maybe it was set to AC
volts, although I'd think that would display as less than DCV.

Bob

 

Alright I'm back and seriously guys. Fucking chill.

I'm going to prove half of you right and say I don't know a multimeter
from a hole in my ass (which is odd since I'm a computer technician.
Just never had to use one)

I had a buddy who was trying to guide me on what to use, the meter had
a 12V switch (it was a 25$ EQUUS 3320 from wally world) and those were
the numbers it was giving me. Mind you of the following

A: I don't know where the hell I was supposed to put it so I pulled
the little plastic cap off and stuck it there.
B: It was so goddamn cramped in there I probably wouldn't put it in
the right spot if I tried

Now a lot of you guys have been posting good stuff. A lot of you have
been assholes, which I somehow understand because it can be
frustrating to talk to someone trying to DIY who knows so much less
than you on any given subject but is that not what were here for? I
don't see an advanced on this rec.auto.makers.chrysler so I know I'm
in the right place.

I digress.

I'm going to get under it this next weekend (this week to to crazy)
and try and get this son of a bitch out even though its so cramped,
Ill test it on a vice when I get it out and might just replace it
since a good replacement is only 100 or so dollars.

Anymore info you think I might need is more than appreciated but I'm
warning you now. I'm an armature at this so don't be a dick about it.



Oh and one more thing, the battery discharged so I put a new one in
just so I know I wont be using a crap battery.

 

Which - the multimeter or the hole in your ass? (sorry - couldn't resist)

Does that mean that it's not supposed to read any higher than 12 volts
on that settting? Or does it meant it reads in that general range? Did
you read the manual on how to use the voltmeter function? 17 volt
reading on your car with the engine off and no chrager on means the
meter is defective or there's something you have not related accurately
(because that reading is impossible on a good meter under the conditions
you stated).

That's equivalent to someone saying I didn't understand the instructions
you gave me for my computer problem, so I clicked "format drive".

If you don't know what you're doing, ask questions - don't just do
random stuff and expect to be able to make sense of it.

The results you get with voltage readings at specific points under
specific conditions tell you certain things. But just to stick it at
some random point, and get some weird reading and ask "What does this
mean "is ludicrous.

Yep - that's what working on a modern car is. You either get the
information you need to figure it out and don't do anything until you
understand what you're doing, or you pay someone else to do it.

Yes - when you don't know anything about what you are doing, you need to
follow specific instructions without trying to wing it. That's why
several of us told you what points to read and under what conditions.
You didn't know enough to do that. You should have asked questions.

I don't know what to tell you about your meter readings - like I said,
it's either defective, or your ignorance (not an insult - it's an
accurate word in this situation) is blocking you from understanding what
really happened and relating it to us. 17 volts under the circumstances
you described? Impossible.

You don't say what your planning on replacing. Entire starter?

We've pretty much told you what you need to know. It boils down to
this: Power is on the hot side of the solenoid contacts. It gets
transfered to the output side of the contacts directly to the starter
when you turn the key to "start" *if* the contacts are good.

It might help if you had a shop manual (factory - not Haynes or other
aftermarket). But then that begs the question: WOuld you know how to
read the schematics and diagrams? (Again - not an insult - an honest
question due to where you are on the learning curve of things automotive
and electrical).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Should be "you're".

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

OK guys, I just put a brand new starter in and its doing the same
fucking thing.


Is it time to burn this car yet?

 

No. Just time to give it to soemone who knows how to troubleshoot with
a multimeter.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

I did, he actually got it running, it took him a full day, he had to
replace 6 wires that were just old, he said he was suprised it hadnt
happened earlier, and he also said the starter was dead. Greatest
thing of all.. He only charged me a 24 pack of diet coke.

 

Well either he is not a competent troubleshooter, or the starter was in
fact bad *and* there is an additional as-yet-undetermined problem.
Things are not adding up in that last post.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')