Rented a RWD Magnum in wintery Montana - Yuk!

I grew up driving RWD cars in Minnesota winters, so I know how it's done. For
the past 15 years I have driven FWD cars, frequently to ski areas in winter
conditions.

People who say RWD vehicles are just as good as FWD on ice and snow are just
plain wrong. FWD is far superior in those conditions.

 

Front wheel drive is LAME! About time cars switched back......

 

There's a host of reasons why most automobiles are now FWD, whereas 50 years
ago few were. Go take a course in automotive mechanics and get the facts.

 

No, there isn't. There's only 1 reason. Cost. It's cheaper to make the
engine
and transmission into 1 unit then during assembly put the single unit in the
vehicle.

Ted

 

Wrong, Ted. The entire vehicle becomes more space and weight efficient; the
combination of traction and steering on one set of wheels gives control and
traction benefits, particularly in slippery conditions (like the OP was
pointing out), and a forward weight bias produces a more stable vehicle in
normal driving conditions.

RWD is superior in specific conditions, such as racing, heavy load carrying,
and heavy-impact duty such as police.

But it's your money. Buy what you like.

 

I thought the reason that they switched back to RWD was because they went
back to V8s and FWD can't handle the torque steer problem with that much
power. RWD is better if you live in California but it sucks if you live in
a snowy climate. I live in New England, I got the AWD option on my 300C
and it works great in the winter and the summer.

 

NOt if you drive up here in the snowy and icey northeast. If I lived in
the warmer climates it would not matter to me.

 

The inherent problem with FWD is that when you lose traction you also
lose steering. Not a good thing.

Regards,
Joe

 

Easily corrected - you just back off the throttle. Makes for slower safer
driving. I've driven in 40 consecutive Ontario winters now, mostly in FWD
cars, and never once got into an accident due to a skid.

 

The exact same thing applies to RWD. Been there as well. However, you
can lose traction with RWD and still retain steering. Not so with FWD.

Regards,
Joe

 

The problem, Joe, is simply that poor drivers do better with FWD.

With FWD, as you point out, when it breaks free you have no control at all,
you either have control or not. However due to the weight of the engine,
you have to push it harder to break it free.

With RWD due to the weight, it breaks free earlier, but it is a 2 step
process,
the rear breaks free first then the front. A skilled driver can feel the
rear breaking
free and can modulate the throttle so that he can still control the car.

With FWD once it breaks free you cannot modulate the throttle all you can do
is
pull your foot immediately off of it. Which is the typical instinctual
response of
a poor driver. Another instinctual response is to slam on the brakes which
locks
the rear which is bad on a RWD car but on a FWD car by the time it's broken
the front free, the rear is already broken free and it makes no difference
what
you do with the brakes.

Our friend Dave probably drives like a an old Grandma in the snow that is
why
he hasn't crashed - because with a FWD car, once it starts snowing or gets
icy that is all you -CAN- do, because the consequences of pushing it mean
your
gonna crash. With RWD when it gets slick you can go faster because you can
feel how far you can push it. (since it will go into traction loss and you
can still recover)

Unfortunately it's been, let's see - Dave said he's been driving 40 years
now - it's
been 40 years since drivers had to have any skill to drive in the snow, so
todays
drivers are now pretty ignorant of why RWD is better.

Ted

 

I don't think the automakers really give much of a damn anymore about real
performance in a passenger car. If they did, they would still be putting
them on
the NASCAR circuit instead of the cars today which have absolutely nothing
to
do with real stock cars.

As to why they went to RWD on V8 cars that's a no brainer. The V8 is
too long of an engine to fit sideways in the engine bay. But if it could be
made
to fit, they would have done FWD on a V8 too.

There were a LOT of really good solid dependible in-line 6 engine designs
that disappeared due to the cost savings of going to FWD and a lot of really
crappy V6 designs that were substituted in (anyone remember the Olds 3.8L?)
for a while there.

Both RWD and FWD suck in the snow compared to AWD, that's not a fair
comparison. One of my own vehicles is an AWD. But you pay for it
in repair bills with the increased complexity of the power train, unless
your
buying a new car every 3 years or so.

Ted

 

I agree.
Obviously those here who don't agree with us don't drive in the winter
conditions you and I do.

I now have about equal time driving RWD then FWD. I'll not be returning
to RWD, even it I have to buy a Toyota. <
Lets face it, one reason RWD is returning because the manufacturers want
some car platforms to support very large engines. RWD is better with
high power engines, simply because high power and steering on the same
wheels just doesn't mix very well. Since I'm not interested in very
high power I couldn't care less for RWD.

The talk here regarding increased difficulty recovering from a FWD skid
is just that- TALK and nothing else.
Each winter I practice my winter skid recovery in a safe area, with FWD
I've never gotten into trouble doing this. Recovery is very easy with
FWD. I'll take under steer of a FWD skid any day over the over steer
spin of RWD. Yes one backs off the power, then gradually applies power
just to the point of slip. I find this gradual application of power
much easier with FWD, partly because I can feel through the steering
wheel what is happening at the driving wheels.

Here we recently had lots of damp heavy snow in two storms- 40cm total.
I was out in both storms and didn't see a Chrysler 300 on the road- wise
people.
In the second storm I was following a BMW, as we came to an uphill left
turn lane he slowly came to a dead stop, stuck solidly. My FWD Concord
just chugged past him, I stopped for an approaching car then completed
the uphill left turn with no trouble. I will admit I have many years of
winter driving and the BMW driver probably didn't else he would not have
attempted the route that bogged him down with his RWD car.

 

So true.
Joe simply slows his lack of FWD experience.

 

Who says a FWD engine has to be transverse?
My LH Concord is along the axis, no torque steer and great access to the
engine.

They have, many years ago.
Hint: GM did it! Along the axis as the Chrysler LH cars.

Of course AWD is superior, but I find I don't need it.
However the Subaru is on my short list if my Concord comes to it's end
and those Subaru's are all AWD.

In addition the Subaru not only can carry a matching spare, it comes
with one as standard equipment.
Anyone want to talk about those very unsafe in all conditions compact
spares, which are often flat when needed when hung underneath?

 

Might want to re-read before hitting 'send'. lol

Regards,
Joe

 

Some good points, Ted. The only thing I'd add is a point about braking.
Once you lock 'em up, you've lost control regardless of whether you're
in a FWD or RWD. As you've said, the only way to regain control is to
let up.

Bottom line for winter driving: consistency wins, abruptness loses.

Regards,
Joe

 

And people who blindly claim that FWD is far superior are simply wrong.

You are correct in that higher power engines do not mix well with FWD
primarily because of torque steer. More than ever before, todays FWD
vehicles have powerful enough engines that torque steer is fairly
common.

The exact same thing applies to RWD, except for the fact that you won't
lose steering as you would with FWD. It's certainly easier to feel
totally out of control when both your traction and steering are gone as
opposed to just losing traction.

And that proves what? That people with FWDs ask for trouble before RWD
drivers do?

Obviously the BMW driver had nothing in the trunk to weigh the rear
down.

BTW, if FWD is so superior in the snow, why aren't there any FWD plows?


Regards,
Joe

 

YES! Fwd is really lame!

RWD cars are for people who can drive cars, fwd is for those who can't

Risto Nevala

 

<... you can lose traction with RWD and still retain steering.

Which is really a statement about how easily you can lose traction on a RWD
car.