Quarter Sales Numbers

I think so too, but not with flying colors. Yet, I could never stand
the Mondeo or the Taurus, way below the competition from GM...

I couldn't care less about either...

It may work for you, but when the profile of the new TL is from the B
column onward a Bonneville and, backwards, a Phaeton, to me, it's
neither, it's nothing. Yawn...

 

Funny, since the same company owns both.

No, it really is. Kia has better layout, design, and features
by far, and Hyundai has slightly better reliability. Go figure.

 

Yeah, but I suspect they're made in different plants (except for the
Sonata-clone, Optima).

 

Coming from a Cavalier, I see what you mean...

My mistake. The previous Maxima was like that.

I prefer cars which keep it minimal. No, but no, thanks. I don't
like to make excuses for lack of refinement.

Who's talking about the Maxima? If you can swallow the small
trapezoidal window s in the rear doors of a car with barely any
straight line, knock yourself out.

 

Look at the variation among GM brands...


Matt

 

Hyundai recently bailed Kia out. Prior to that, they were really two
different manufacturers.

Brad

 

Well, that's a choice that has little to do with a car - at least not
in the back seats
of what they sell for cars in Japan. ;-)

Overpopulation is a choice that people in a society make. I live in a
growing urban area
and constantly read in the paper about people complaining about their
quality of life
being degraded by more people moving in. Most of them of course are also
out having
the usual American 3.5 children.

Ted

 

Hmmm let's look at this rediculous assumption for a minute...

Your 3 Buicks had 36,000 mile warranties, and lasted 140K miles on average -
so they lasted 3.8x times the length of the warranty.

You sold your vulva at 230K so I assume then that you figure that 230K is
the
useful end of service life for the foreign vehicles. (otherwise why sell the
vulva?)
So this Kia and Hundai warranty of 100K means that according to you, the car
is only going to last 2.3x times the length of the warranty.

Seems to me that your foreign vehicles have a poorer service life if you
measure it by warranty alone - 2.3 vs the superior Buick 3.8x So much
for this kind of warranty comparison.

Anyway, as far as the manufacturer getting reamed on warranty repairs, that
is
rediculous. For starters, a warranty can easily be written with enough
exceptions
so that you can drive a truck through it, so without a section-by-section
comparison
of the warranties between Kia and Buick, your just blowing air out your ass.
In
short, your falling for the old "we gives with the large print and we takes
with the
small print" mentality, and this is exactly what the marketers are planning.
In short,
a 100K warranty that has a loophole that lets the manufacturer escape most
engine
replacements isn't as useful as a 36K warranty that's pretty air tight.

Secondly, engine wear has only a tenuous relationship to mileage. It could
very
well be that your Vulva was only driven on highway miles, while your Buicks
spent their life idling in city traffic.

Thirdly, the manufacturer sets the vehicle price by including warranty
repairs -
in short, the longer the warranty on a car line, the larger the percentage
of the
sale price the manufacturer is going to have to devote to escrowing for
future warranty work. So the upshot is that assuming both Kia and Buick
take the same profit margin on their vehicles, Kia has less money they can
spend on the actual vehicle parts and such. Thus, the car is going to be
made with cheaper parts. This won't necessairly show up in obvious stuff -
like trim falling off, that sort of thing - but it will show up in thinness
of the
sheet metal, (ie: can you sit your ass on the top of the Kia's hood and
watch
the stars at a drive in movie without putting a huge ass-shaped dent in it?)
a cheaper carpet that wears out faster, thinner paint, less comfortable
seats, and a whole host of
money saving tricks that degrade the total quality of the car.

If this Buick of yours has been so immaculately kept, and the paint and
sheet metal is so flawless, then it would seem to me the smart thing is to
drop a rebuilt engine in it, for about $4K, and get another 120K miles
out of that, instead of spending 3 times that on a new Kia that is only
going to run 2 times longer.

There are rebuilders that warranty for up to 5 years, 50,000 miles on the
engine. I happen to be driving a vehicle with such an engine in it. And
the entire job only cost $3200.

Ted

 

Jingoism is not a good basis on which to conduct economic debate or policy.
Beggar-thy-neighbour policies certainly led to a worsening of the situation
at the time of the Depression in the 20s.

Chrysler is free to sell its cars everywhere and, now that it's part of DC,
is likely to see more sales in Europe and elsewhere, but they will never be
large unless the vehicles deliver what consumers want. Right now the Jeep
and Voyager seem to be doing quite well in Britain.

Furthermore, if we follow jingoist policies, should Europeans not buy Fords
and GMs made in Europe, just because the owners are mostly in the USA?

Jingoism and related attitudes lead to bad deals for consumers, who more
than necessary for the goods. Possibly the greatest example is agricultural
produce. How much more are we in Europe, US and Japan paying for certain
products because of vast subsidies to 'our own' farmers, instead of buying
the same stuff from developing countries etc etc?

DAS

 

If you don't like it you don't buy it. Maybe many Americans disagree with
your opinion.

DAS

 

A pity you don't get the Focus from Ford of Europe. Britain's top seller
year after year. I rented them a few times. Nice cars.

DAS

 

Again, shame a you don't get the European Mondeo. Highly praised,
well-selling in the UK.

DAS
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NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
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We got the previous one (Ford Contour, Mercury Mystique). Didn't sell well --
too small inside for its price range, too conservative in its styling. Since
the Focus has the same, or more, interior room, Ford decided to drop it in the
US.

 

So you don't mind that the top CEO's of Hyundai are getting nailed one after
the other for funnelling hundreds of millions (possibly billions - see how
much more turns up) to the government of North Korea?



Lloyd Parker wrote:

Hyundai is quite reliable now -- check the CR data. Kia lags,

 

And you'd conclude that lemmings are thus the most intelligent living
beings on the planet... :-D

 

I drove one for 1500Km in Germany and Austria. Exactly the same POS
as in the US. Not a difference whatsoever.

 

It looks very nice indeed and said to be much better than its pitiful predecessor.

 

On basis do you make your judgment?

I had a Ghia version. Quite well appointed and well screwed together. As
it was the booted version (i.e. with trunk) I found it very boring to look
at. I refer the hatchback.

DAS

 

No more than Ken Lay funnelling millions to himself and his Republican
benefactors.

 

And very nice looking as well.

I thought Ford was going to bring it back over to this side of the pond,
but haven't heard anything about it in awhile.