Problem With Power Outlet

Funny, my cars always only cranked until the batter could no longer
generate enough voltage to drive enough current through the starter to
turn the engine over. I'd like to know where you buy your infinitely
large batteries that will just keep cranking as long as you hold the key.

Hey, we agree on something!

Matt

 

define 'much'

I daresay I understand it better than most

 

Max Dodge wrote:

It doesn't indicate that at all. It COULD be the battery, but it also
could be one of several other possibilities as has been mentioned earlier.

Matt

 

Bill, it is clear he doesn't understand the fundamentals of Ohm's law
let alone how a voltage regulator works.

Matt

 

You said at 10:27 AM on Sunday, March 12th: "Have a load test done
elsewhere, or simply replace the battery. Say, has anyone checked the
age of this battery?"

Maybe you don't know the meaning of "or", but to refresh your memory or
means that you can either do the thing before the or or the thing after
the or. No order is implied. So the above is suggesting that you can
either perform a test or you can replace the battery without having
tested it.

You've been defied. Any comment?


Matt

 

Sure have. I even designed a few when I was in college getting my EE
degree. Do you have any idea how a voltage regulator works?


Matt

 

It would have given a definitive answer ONLY if the battery is the
problem. If the problem lies elsewhere, replacing the battery wouldn't
have done a thing for the problem and cost you money for no good reason.
That is why a true diagnostician checks things out systematically
before replacing parts.


Matt

 

Convention is red for positive and black for negative, but most modern
DVMs will simply show you a negative value if you reverse polarity.


Matt

 

certainly

do you know WHY alternators, not generators, are used these days ?

hint: full output VOLTAGE at idle

 

wrong, Braniac

It would have

a) proven the battery was at fault

or b) shown the problem to be with the inverter power outlet or wiring to
that outlet

either way, the original poster would have had a definitive answer

 

No, as their are many things in the path from the battery to the outlet.
Things like wiring, most likely a PTC, a ground connection, etc. He
still wouldn't know precisely where the problem was UNLESS he was lucky
and it was the battery. If it wasn't, he's only slightly closer to the
real problem and he's also out the price of a battery.


Matt

 

Neil I haven't been following this whole thread and Im not sure if this will
help but on the 2001-2005 fuse number 6 in the junction block has 3 slots it
is stamped B+ or ign on the IPM. If the fuse is in the slot that is marked
ign, take it out and slide it over to the batt slot. this will now make the
power outlet hot all the time when the key is in the off position. this
should be in your owners manual.. like I said I have not been following this
thread so this may have already been bought to your attention..
Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

Exactly. If you have an "old fashioned" analog meter, it will matter.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

....or this news group!! LOL!

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Within spec., but at full (regulated) output voltage? Typically, no,
especially with a few accessories turned on. Read the spec. page on the
alternator in an FSM. It says to test it, you have to have at least 'x'
rpm and load it with 'y' current to say that it's good.

Alternators are more capable of providing full voltage at much lower rpm
than generators. Generators (meaning the d.c. generator of years ago -
I say that because the auto manufacturers are, in more recent years now
referring to what you and I have referred to as alternators as
generators) required the idle rpm to be ratiod up to spin it a lot
faster (than an alternator) to keep the voltage in spec., such that at
todays engine rpms, say, in a passing situation (5000 or 6000 engine
rpm), the generator would fly apart. With the alternator being able to
supply much more current at lower spin rates, they can gear (pulley)
them down so that they can withstand the high engine rpms. Also, keep
in mind that the modern car puts a lot more current demand on an
alternator - in the days of generators, they used to talk in terms of 20
or 25 amp units. Now, a 90, 110, or greater alternator is the norm.

Back to the topic at hand, they typically size the pulleys to just
barely keep things in a usable range of voltage at idle (depending on
the loads that are turned on) with reasonable loads. On most cars, if
you put a voltmeter on your battery (alternator output), you will find
that the voltage drops off a little at idle - still within spec., but
some drop-off. This is especially true if you turn more than usual
loads on - say, headlight high beams, and the passenger compartment
blower fan on high speed (it pulls a bunch of current). It's a fact.
BTW - something that people do if they need full voltage at idle is to
put an optional police package alternator on their car - can provide
heftier currents and maintain voltage a lot better at idle. (Hmmm maybe
that's an option for the OP.)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

A regulator cannot force an alternator to put out full regulated voltage

False. Voltage will be at whatever the VR sets it to be, regardless of RPM.
CURRENT on the other hand, may vary due to load and RPM. Want proof? go
outside, fire up your vehicle, attach a good multimeter, wait till voltage
stabilizes, then turn on all the lights and radio etc. Watch the meter.
Voltage will not change, assuming the alernator is turning. Rev it up, still
won't change.

Wanna make it real simple? Most cars have a voltmeter on the dash, watch it
to see if it goes up and down. If it does, replace the VR. If not, its
working properly.

Got a friend with a Cummins Ram? Watch it while the grid cycles. Revving the
engine does NOT stop the Voltage from dropping with the load.

You've got the two backwards. Anyone whose driven a 60's-70's mopar with the
ammeter knows this. And I repeat, you won't see much difference on the
ammeter either.

--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 

How so?

Say, that looks EXACTLY like what I posted, except for your emphasis. Again,
No matter how you cut it, the ENGINE is NOT running. I clearly posted the
entire line, its all there in your post, see below my sig.

Here is the original post:
inverter works fine; but when the engine is off (with key in accessory
position), the inverter will run for a few seconds, give an error beep, and
then shut down.<<

No misreading it, he clearly says when the engine is running, the invertor
works fine. Engine off, the inverter doesn't work long at all. Nope, I read
it quite clearly.

Bullshit. I did nothing, get some glasses.

Better read that again blind guy.
inverter works fine; but when the ***engine is off ***(with key in accessory
position), the inverter will run for a few seconds, give an error beep, and
then shut down.<<

The question is about the engine off condition which seems to play games
with the invertor. If you think its something different, you missed the
boat. Go back to OP and start over.


--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 

It would have given a definitive answer ONLY if the battery is the

Which is why I suggested doing exactly that, in a list, despite what you
want to believe.

--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 

wrong, Braniac

And a new battery, which at three years on a factory battery, isn't a bad
idea at all.

Meanwhile, a bunch of guys who never set foot in a repair shop except to
pick up the car, will tell a bunch of us who've been doping this for years
how it all works, wasting time for..... days, while the OP doesn't have a
clue how to operate a VM....

Take the fucking thing to a garage and forget asking here, half of us don't
have a clue, the other half have too much info.



--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 

Max, what you are advocating (I hope) is a BATTERY RESERVE TEST.

By my count thats 13.2, but hey, its only math, right?

A load test puts a known load on the battery directly and shows the voltage
under load. No need for fancy procedures, ya clamp it on, pull the trigger
and watch the meter.

Again, starting after a couple of days sitting is not a test for battery
under load. I stand by my proven diagnostic method which has NEVER failed in
20 years of using it. Guesswork and random lights on etc is a sure way to
failure, as you've got NO finite measurement of voltage drop.


--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)