Problem With Power Outlet

See my more recent response to Clare here. Front circuit has problems too.

Thanks,

Neil

 

Actually, splitter isn't necessary. The inverter has an auxiliary power
outlet (in case you want to plug in a cigarette lighter or cell phone or
whatever), in addition to the AC outlet.

 

Here is another thought to add to all the good info on how power drops in
various ways in this situation:

If Autozone tested the battery after you drove there, and found 12.8 volts,
you need a new battery. A battery that just had a charging system pushing
power into it should be over 13v, maybe even close to 14v. FOr it to be at
12.8 after a charge cycle indicates poor ability to stand up to a load.
Which brings us to the load test.... doesn't sound like one was done.

And as Gary says, check the voltage at the socket with a voltmeter.

This ain't rocket science folks: load test the battery, check voltage at the
power port, and act accordingly.
--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 

Your battery is OK. Regardless what anyone else tells you.

Rubbish. With Alt charging, the system should show over 14v. Second, as yet,
no one has shown results of a load test, which is the ONLY way to find out
how it works under a load. Funny how that works......

--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 

Scroll down dipshit. You quoted the results of the load test. 628 CCA. I'm
pretty sure that's enough to power his little charger.

The PCM will vary charge rate according to battery conditions, temp etc. System
voltage wouldn't necessarily be over 14V.

What he needs is a voltage drop test on that rear power outlet circuit.

 

No shit. Hard to believe this idiotic thread has progressed this long.

Replace the friggin battery, and be done with it!

 

Which would lead to the other two of the three ideas I gave you. Losing
voltage across a silicon device that is controller power to the sockets,
or losing voltage across a PTC that is providing circuit overload
protection. There may well be a 4th and 5th possibility, but without
looking at schematics I can't say what else might be possible. Could
also be something like a corroded ground, etc., but your vehicle isn't
all that old so that is less likely.

Is there another similar vehicle that you can try this same inverter and
charger in? Maybe a dealer will let you try a new one on the lot. That
could quickly tell you if this is a systematic problem or just a fault
with your particular vehicle.


Matt

 

Where did you get that information? Nominal voltage for a properly
charged battery in good condition is 12.6V. A battery that has just
been charged can read a little higher than that for a short time, but
will fairly quickly drop back to 12.6V or less depending on battery
condition. And this is open circuit voltage. As soon as you apply a
load of any significance, it can drop well below 12.6 due to the
internal resistance in the battery.

It sounds like you are confusing charging voltage (14-14.6V) with
battery voltage (~12.6).


Matt

 

The vehicle still starts using this battery. That is a pretty good load
test. The starting load is so much higher than the load he's using
charging his laptop that this isn't even a concern in this situation.
Now if the battery would run the laptop charge, but not start the
engine, then I'd suggest a load test was in order, but not the other way
around.


Matt

 

Hey, that's a great idea! Definitely worth a try.

Neil

 

That was an excuse for lazy mechanics - very lazy mechanics. They were
taking advantage of your ignorance (and I don't mean that as an insult
to you). To hear them, you'd think that to measure voltage at a
battery, you'd need to buy one voltmeter, then to read voltage at a
starter, you'd need a special voltmeter for reading the voltage at a
starter, ad infinitum.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

During the test, the person had me rev the engine to over 1500 rpms. Not
sure if that's the load test you're referring to or if it's something else.

Neil

 

Well, in fairness to them, in both cases I was talking to a service manager,
not the mechanic. So it may have been ignorance on their part (and mine as
well).

Neil

 

Where did you get that information? Nominal voltage for a properly

Not at all. As you said above, a battery will be ABOVE nominal voltage if
its charging. SO>>>> if its JUST BEEN CHARGING, and it is returning to
nominal, it'll be ABOVE 12.8 volts...It doesn't just drop like a rock to
nominal voltage.

Sorta like we BOTH just said.

WTF?

--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 

This is sometimes a problem in LH cars, and when it happens, it is often
the result of loose power connections at the positive jump post.
Vibration and self heating (of the high-resistance joint) cause
intermittent flickering of power which will only be evident to you in
headlight flickering (until the joint resistance gets so high that the
engine will cut off or the starter won't work - starter is on a
different cable but goes thru the same stud connection).

I don't know if the van has this same jump post, but you might check
into that or other joints in the power cables. It might in fact be that
you're dropping a half a volt or so consistently, with momentary
fluctuations (again due to vibration and self-heating) thru such a
joint, but as you've been led to believe, and rightly so, that's
probably not the *main* problem with your power converter. The main
problem is almost certainly an ohmic drop in the wire going to the socket.

(And I can't believe that this problem has generated a thread this long.)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

During the test, the person had me rev the engine to over 1500 rpms. Not

LOL, thats funny... really.

Revving the engine will do NOTHING to increase alternator output voltage;
amperage maybe a little. Either way, its not a load test. But it does show
how accurate and knowledgable the people at your particular Autozone are.

Have a load test done elsewhere, or simply replace the battery. Say, has
anyone checked the age of this battery?

Again, its not rocket science.

--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 

Yes - but the problem is less severe at the front socket - shorter wire,
less drop. The only way to answer anything any further is to get that
voltmeter and see where your actual voltage drops are in the vehicle.
Keep in mind also that a cheap power inverter will not pull a constant
steady current - it takes huge pulses of current at high frequency that
average out to the stated steady state figure. The wires to the sockets
have inductance, which acts differently to high frequency pulses than
pure resistance to d.c. (steady state) current. I can't say for sure,
but one solution may be to put a large capacitor right at the socket to
a solid ground - that will negate the pulsing effects over the long
wires to the sockets if they are in fact what are pissing off the inverter.

*BUT* - and that's a big BUTT - to repeat myself, you'd be wise to get a
voltmeter and also check the steady state (d.c.) drops in the chain of
wires that supply the power to the load (measure the drops with the load
applied).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Which makes the statement by the dealer that they didn't have a meter to
measure voltage there even more ridiculous than first thought. As
someone else pointed out, they ae giving you the brush off. And it
means that all you need is the meter.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Scroll down dipshit. You quoted the results of the load test. 628 CCA.

Um, NOPE. Thats the amperage available from the battery, NOT load test,
"Dipshit." A load test will show voltage drop over a short period of time
when a resistance is applied. The very simple test I have in mind won't show
amperage rating of a battery, "Dipshit". As to if it'll power anything,
well, I wouldn't have any less than 750 if I were driving accessories like
that, and I'd prefer 1000. Why? Because of the exact situation we have here.

Immediately after charging, a battery should read more than 12.8 volts.

No kidding, maybe thats why I suggested checking the voltage at the port and
acting accordingly.

--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

 

The vehicle still starts using this battery. That is a pretty good load

With due respect, no it is not. I've seen many cars, even back in the
carbureted era, start just fine on a batttery that failed a load test.

Big deal. As someone suggested, perhaps the voltage drops to the port he is
using..... oh yeah, A BUNCH of us have.

Anytime a problem that might be related to battery load occurs, the FIRST
test is the SOURCE of power to determine its capacity, capability, and
performance under load. Only when you have a known quantity as the power
source can you accurately determine other issues, such as voltage drop to
the power port.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a very poor tech, and needs further training.


--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)