Problem With Power Outlet

I just purchased a 2003 Dodge Caravan SE with 45K miles. With my previous
cars (a GMC Jimmy and a Chevy Cavalier), I've plugged an AC inverter into
the cigarette lighter/power outlet, and then plugged my laptop computer into
the inverter to charge and run it, without any problems. However, with my
new car, the inverter shuts down, indicating it's not getting enough power
(it automatically shuts down at 10.5V). When the engine is running, the
inverter works fine; but when the engine is off (with key in accessory
position), the inverter will run for a few seconds, give an error beep, and
then shut down.

I went to AutoZone and had them test the battery and alternator. They said
everything tested fine, and the battery was at 12.8V.

I then went to a Dodge dealer's service department and talked with a guy
there. He said he thought it would be the battery, as it's the original
manufacturer battery and has 45K miles on it. (I told him about the AutoZone
test, and he said that that test isn't conclusive, that I could have a bad
cell in the battery, and so forth.)

While it's possible that it's the battery, I'll note that the car starts
right up, without any hesitation, and it seems to me that if the battery was
so low that it couldn't provide at least 10.5V, that there would be some
hesitation when the car was started.

So, while I'm not ruling out the battery situation, I thought I'd ask here
if anyone had any other ideas about what this might be. The specs for the
power inverter and for the laptop charger are below.

Thanks for any input!

Neil

Power Inverter Specs:

Capacity 140W
Input Voltage 12Vdc
DC Input Voltage Range 10.5 - 15.8Vdc
Output Voltage (Nominal) 120Vac ± 5%
DC Voltage 12Vdc ( Cigarette Jack )
Frequency 60 Hz ± 3%
Continuous Output Power 140W
Peak Output Power 270W

Laptop Charger Specs:

Power Provided: 90 W
Product Type: Power Adapter
Type: AC Adapter
Voltage Required: 100 to 240 VAC
Max Output Current: 4.5 A max. at 4-second pulse, 3.5 A continuous

 

why not just replace the battery, instead of over-analyzing this ?

if the battery cures it, case closed

if not, let dodge deal with it

 

Hi Neil...

Respectfully suggest that the problem's not with the battery or
the alternator, but rather that the invertor's shutting down to
save you being stranded. (by the time the battery voltage is down
to 10.5 volts with a 3 or 4 amp draw you aren't at all likely to
start the car)

Only reasonable suggestion I can offer is buying another from
someplace that might let you try several until you find one a
little less protective of you - or modifying the one you have to
make it a little less sensitive to battery voltage. Be aware,
though, that if you do go this route you may well end up stranded.

Good luck, and take care.

Ken

 

Go out to the car, plug in your puter and inverter, see that it is not
getting power, then turn your key to acc. Does it come on for a few
seconds? What if you turn the key to 'on' without starting the engine?
Does it go on and stay on?

My inverter stays on for a few seconds after turning the truck off if it is
plugged into the power outlet that doesn't get power when the key is off. I
don't know if it turns on with the key on acc as I now have it plugged into
a 'always on' outlet when I use it.

FMB

 

You'll probably find your cigarette lighter plug is depowered when the
engine is shut down. It'll be a fairly simple matter to rewire it so it's
live all the time.

 

Well, I'd prefer to not shell out $75 if it's something else.

As for Dodge, the car's out of warranty (45K miles), anything's out of
pocket.

Neil

 

Right, except that I've used this same setup -- same inverter, same laptop
and charger -- for a long time with my other car, without any problem. So it
seems that I'm not getting the juice from the car that I should be getting.
The inverter never shut down with my GMC Jimmy.

Thanks.

 

There are two outlets -- one in the front, and one in the back. The one in
the front requires the key to be in Acc; the one in the back is always on.
Whether the key is on (with either on) or the key is off (with just the one
in the back), the results are the same: inverter only stays on for a few
seconds, indicating that it's not getting enough juice. When the engine's on
(and, hence, alternator's on), it stays on. But with the engine off, the
inverter stays on for just a couple of seconds and then shuts down.

Thanks.

 

Chrysler vehicles have a "battery saver" function that may be shutting
down the load a few minutes after killing the ignition.

 

The one in the back is on all the time (the fuse box allows you to toggle it
between always on and only on with key), but the one in the front requires
the key to be in Acc. Either way, without the engine on, the inverter's not
getting enough juice to stay on.

 

Actually, I've tested it with the engine off, and it only stays on a few
seconds. Not sure what the batter saver function is; but if the battery is
fully charged, then a 90W drain shouldn't be that much for it. But the
inverter shuts down after a couple of seconds with the engine off.

 

Besides the good suggestion of others that the socket may become
depowered with ign. off, I can't believe that no one has suggested - are
you ready for a mind-blowing idea? - that you take a *voltmeter* and
actually read the *voltage* at the lighter socket both with the inverter
as a load, and without load. It may not give you the *whole* story, but
it certainly would answer a lot of questions about what is going on with
the voltage levels - like, is there too much drop in the wire to the
socket, *OR* is the system voltage dropping, *OR* is something actively
*disconnecting* the socket from power *OR* etc., etc.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

A 2003 may be covered under the 5-60 warranty offered on some 2003 models.

 

It wouldn't be the battery saver system then. It waits a few minutes
before killing loads it knows shouldn't normally be drawing power. Have
you put a meter on the circuit to see what voltage reading you're
actually getting?

 

Your troubleshooting has been fairly extensive...except for the only 2
tests that actually matter:

1. What is the voltage at on the battery terminals, engine on and
engine off?

2. What is the voltage at the interior sockets, engine on and engine
off?

If (1) is above 10.5 v engine on and below 10.5 v engine off, your
battery is shot...no matter what.

If (1) is above 10.5 v at all times...and stays that way for a couple
of minutes, and (2) is above 10.5 v, then a: Your inverter is broken,
or b: the inverter's specifications are wrong (it shuts down above 10.5
v.)

It is also perfectly possible that both sockets in the new vehicle have
been used extensivelly and are seriously corroded. This essentially
places a resistor in the circuit...causing a voltage drop that depends
on the current drawn by the inverter...which depends on the load on the
inverter. For this, clean the interiors of the sockets (battery
disconnected).

But I'd vote for poor battery performance.




Actually, I've tested it with the engine off, and it only stays on a
few
seconds. Not sure what the batter saver function is; but if the battery
is
fully charged, then a 90W drain shouldn't be that much for it. But the
inverter shuts down after a couple of seconds with the engine off.

 

Below is what I got from the car's CarFax report. Don't know how accurate it
is. But it seems to indicate that there is no warranty.

Neil

Estimated start date of warranty: 09/08/2003
Last reading reported on 01/07/2006: 43,212 miles
Today's Date: March 1, 2006

Type of Coverage: Original Warranty: Estimated Remaining Coverage:
Basic 36 months or 36,000 miles Coverage expired
Drivetrain 84 months or 70,000 miles 55 months or 26,788 miles
Emissions 36 months or 36,000 miles Coverage expired
Corrosion 60 months or 100,000 miles 31 months or 56,788 miles
Transferable Transferable at no cost Same
Roadside Assistance 36 months or 36,000 miles Coverage expired
Safety Belt & Inflatable Restraint No data reported to CARFAX
Specific Components 96 months or 80,000 miles 67 months or 36,788
miles
Notes: Manufacturer covers emissions components under basic warranty.
Emissions coverage may vary by state. Refer to owners manual for specific
details. Transferable: no cost, unlimited owners covered. Corrosion coverage
applies to outer panels. Inner panels are covered un corrosion for 3 years
only. Wear items are covered for 1 year or 12,000 miles. A $100 powertrain
deductible applies after basic warranty coverage period and is transferable.

 

Yes, that's a good idea. I actually asked two places out that -- a Goodyear
repair place and the Dodge dealer service center. Both said they didn't have
any such voltmeter.

 

No, I haven't, and, per the other message I just posted here, I don't know
here I can get a meter than reads voltage in the actual power outlet. I
suppose I could put a meter on the battery and see what happens.

 

See below.

When I tested it at AutoZone, they said the battery tested fine, and it was
at 12.8V. That was with a series of tests, and with a load, etc. So don't
know the exact answer to the above question; but the battery passed the
AutoZone tester tests.

That's a good question. How do I test that? As noted in this thread, I
haven't been able to find someone who has a tester for the actual sockets.

As noted, I haven't had a problem with the inverter previously (with my
Jimmy). And this is the first time I'm using with the Caravan, which I just
got last week.

They both look pretty clean.

That would be an easy thing to rectify. Does it sound like 45K miles is a
reasonable amount for an original battery to fail? I'm in Texas and the
summers are hot. But, still, it seems like it should last longer.

Thanks!

 

Which proves that the battery needs to be replaced, as you've already been
advised. Sheesh.