Out-ofState Speeding Ticket

This is the thing about attorneys that I really despise. Someone
driving like this is just a moment away from wiping out some innocent
family. He SHOULD lose his license, at least for some enough to let him
think about his driving habits.

Matt

 

This is the thing about attorneys that I really despise. Someone driving
like this is just a moment away from wiping out some innocent family. He
SHOULD lose his license, at least for some enough to let him think about his
driving habits.

Well, my current client has lost his driving rights in NYS. Based upon the
fine and the time that has passed and the fact that he is a Canadian
licensed driver there is a need to answer the tickets and to pay the fines
and to reach an agreement on the points. It is not my job to do anything
else but assist him so that the courts adequately administer his cases.
Don't let your bias show so overtly against attorneys. It is the statutes
and the courts that control, not the attorney who is doing his best to help
someone thorough the system, especially someone who does not speak English
or know anything about our civil law system.

Richard.

 

It's very important that we all separate our feelings about Richard's
clients from our feelings about him. Everyone deserves a competant
defense, even gangsters and terrorists not just minor miscreats. Our legal
system is predicatated on the idea that you are innocent until proven
guilty. It's terribly important that the government be kept honest by
lawyers like Richard who force the state to prove their case. That said
when you get down to individual cases you look at the tradeoffs and you do
what is appropriate. In the cases that Richard was talking about where the
accused are looking at the loss of their licenses and maybe worse it's
very important to have a lawyer. But for a case like the OP's where all he
is looking at is a fine and a small bump in his insurance rates the cost
in time and money to fight it far exceeds the cost of pleading guilty and
mailing in his fine.

 

What hasn't been discussed here, that I've seen anyway, is what the
violators HOME state is.

For example, here in New York, exceptiing really serious violations (DWI,
etc), our DMV does NOT track or record information from any other U.S. State
(although, as was pointed out, they DO exchange records with Ontario and
Quebec!)

While I'm sure that insurance companies differ, mine allows one speeding
ticket a year, as long as it's 14 MPH or less "over", as a "gimmee"

Rick

 

My bias isn't against attorneys, it is against some of the things they
do. Helping your client understand the law and deal with a foreign
language is great. However, you should also help him understand that
driving 90 MPH on roads designed for 70 and with most other traffic
traveling slower is DANGEROUS and could result in someone getting
killed. And you should help him understand that if he does this he
should lose his license to drive in the USA.

Don't attorneys take an oath as an officer of the court which obligates
them to uphold the law?


Matt

 

I never stated a feeling abourt Richard, I stated a feeling about an
action he seems to be taking. It sounded like he knew that his client
was guilty and should pay a certain penalty (loss of license). It also
sounded like he was trying to get that just and reasonably penalty
reduced to a point that allowed his client to continue to drive
dangerously on roads in NYS. There is nothing virtuous about that.
When this man kills someone, I hope that Richard gets to sit across the
table from the victim's family and explain how he helped get this man
back on the road so he can continue to drive at 30+ over the speed limit...


Matt

 

How do you feel about the doctors or paramedics that administer first
aid and medical care to, say, felons/criminals that get caught by
police after a shootout, a car chase, a bank robbery, - where
bystanders are killed?

 

Heh heh! Reminds me of the story my mother has told many times about
when she was growing up on Long Island. The cops had some big shootout
with some big-time gangster of the day - they revived him and put him up
in the Mineola hospital for many months to recuperate at taxpayer
expense, then, when he was well enough, they tried him and executed him.
Can't tell you how many times I've heard my mother tell that story,
and every time, infuriated over the taxpayer money they spent on fixing
the guy up. There's got to be a Far Side™ cartoon in there somewhere.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Interesting story, but it misses the point. Innocent until proven guilty.

 

I never stated a feeling abourt Richard, I stated a feeling about an
action he seems to be taking.

[If a client is just going to enter a plea of Guilty, and not have any
discussions with the prosecutor or the Judge about the sentence then the
client does not need an attorney. But it seems you object to the right of a
client to obtain legal services to represent the client in such discussions
and the entry of a plea so that the cost and time of a trial can be avoided;
that is your right, but our state constitutions give us due process rights
to seek and obtain representation. A lawyer is more than a "ham sandwich"
passively serving the whim of the courts or the prosecutors. If a client
wants to fight a ticket or the offered fine and penalty that is his right.
The lawyer's job is to represent the interent of the client, if the lawyer
did anything else he should be disbarred.]

It sounded like he knew that his client was guilty and should pay a certain
penalty (loss of license).

[Just how would I know if my client is guilty? I was not there, I did not
see him drive, nor did I observe the actions of the police].

It also sounded like he was trying to get that just and reasonably penalty
reduced to a point that allowed his client to continue to drive dangerously
on roads in NYS. There is nothing virtuous about that.

[And YOU know what is JUST and REASONABLE. And who said virtue had anthing
to do with this. In NYS the points were raised by the state agency at the
behest of the insurance companies who were then allowed to raise their
insurance rates based upon the points accumulated. The insurance lobby got
what it wanted by passing around contributions to elected officials. We do
not live in Utopia where all crimes are solved, all criminals are punished
and where the Courts always hand out justice with an even hand].

When this man kills someone, I hope that Richard gets to sit across the
table from the victim's family and explain how he helped get this man back
on the road so he can continue to drive at 30+ over the speed limit...

[Some high horse you have there. You assume that driving at speed is a
significant issues. Yet nationally, the accident rate has fallen
significantly on all interstates and state roads where the speed limit has
been risen from the previous 55 mph limit, up to 85 mph in some states, with
no exception anywhere. The autoban does not suffer from a significantly
higher accident rate than typical US interstates. And you also assume that
an individual without valid driving privilages are not on the road. You also
assume that a mere attorney representing a client is responsible for all
unintended consequences, and the rights of due process, and the discretion
of the police, prosecuror, and the judge applying laws and procedures
adopted by the legislatures and signed by governors have nothing to do with
the outcome. In your world it is only the big bad lawyer that is doing his
best to shake up your preception of right and wrong.]Richard.

 

Very high-minded, I'm sure. Totally unrealistic.

Simple example: British motorways have a 70 mph limit. I have often been in
situations where just about everyone around me is travelling at c. 85 mph.

Plus, a 70-mph motorway is not designed to be negotiated at a max of 70 mph,
but at a higher limit for safety reasons. Many sections of UK motorways are
safe at 100 mph. I am sure that sections of German Autobahn where speed is
unlimited will have a slightly different design to the UK motorways, e.g.
fewer bends. Also, a UK motorway might not show an 85 mph limit where it
might be extra 'curvaceous', whereas a German motorway might.

But that's hardly making UK motorways safe at only 70 mph.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...

[...]

 

I feel just fine about it. Why do you ask?

Matt

 

You may want to read:

http://www.benefitcost.its.dot.gov/ITS/benecost.nsf/ID/D4BB2D877DDD955885256BB9005C472C

http://www.benefitcost.its.dot.gov/ITS/benecost.nsf/ID/908E1267499C4322852569610051E27E

http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/simple/index.php/t6599.html

The issue isn't always absolute speed, it is the variance among cars on
the road (as I made clear in my first post on this topic). If you can
lobby NYS to raise its speed limits to 90 MPH, then I'm all for that.
However, as long as the limit is 65 and most are driving at or near that
speed, someone driving at 90 is a clear and present hazard to others on
the road. You can rationalize all you want, but it doesn't change that.

The autobahn is designed for higher speeds than are American interstates
so that comparison is bogus at the most basic level. And even on the
autobahn, it has been shown that lower speeds result in fewer accidents
and fatalities.

Matt

 

And even on the autobahn, it has been shown that lower speeds result in
fewer accidents and fatalities.

You have obliviously never driven on the autobahn. Our NYS Northway is much
better designed for speed, with wider lanes, physical divisions between
traffic moving in different directions, and better marked and planned exits.
It was designed with an assumed posted speed of 75 mph and a designed
enforcement limit of 85 mph.

But I agree that it is best to have traffic all moving in the same direction
at about the same speed and would not like to see the limits removed from
our roads; except for me of course.

Richard.

 

That is true, but I have driven in both England (lived there for 4
months) and France. Their highways were in much better shape than
almost anything in NY or PA. I live in PA and work in NY and drive
extensively in both states.

I wouldn't mind higher limits as long as they would strictly enforce the
limits, both too fast and too slow. It is the differential that kills
more so than the absolute speeds.


Matt

 

that's like why do they use alcohol to sterilize the spot on the arm of a
prisoner that they are admistering the fatal injection to?
(man, that was very bad grammer)..

--

 

Objectively speaking, people exceeding the speed limit in their vehicles are
not a major reason for accidents and deaths on the highway. Number 1 is
likely falling asleep at the wheel, followed by lack of full attention to
the road [including having sex or eating or both, while driving], following
too close, driving too fast for environmental conditions [rain, snow, ice
and lack of adequate sight distances], and last but not least, legal and
illegal drug and mood enhancement substances and beverages that impact
attention and reaction times.

But out of all this it is the enforcement of speeding that is most easy for
the police and it is a major revenue enhancement for state and local
government. When was the last time you hear of someone getting a ticket for
following too close? [It is easy to pick off a speeder on a nearly empty
road than a driver following too close in heavy traffic].

Richard.

 

Some European police forces promise to enforce this but I wonder how many
people are actually prosecuted...

I hate tail-gating, especially at 90+ mph...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

 

That is IMHO an absurd response...even from an attorney.
First, your clients 'ignorance' of the law is no excuse. If he can not speak
English, what is he doing driving in a country where traffic control signs
are in English? suppose the numbers on that speed limit sign were in a
different language in Canada! Not!!

 

I don't doubt that a bit. I think all of these should be addressed to
the extent possible. However, I don't think that ignoring a chronic
speeder just because "there are worse things out there" is the answer.
Does that mean we shouldn't look at cures for the flu just because that
more people die from cancer and heart disease?

Matt