Opinions wanted: 2000 Chrysler 300M or Grand Prix GT?

Got two cars to choose from. A pretty loaded 2000 Grand Prix (heated
leather, sunroof, 3.8 non-supercharged engine), or a 2000 300M. Both have
pretty close to the same mileage (well, kilometerage, since I'm in Canada).

My needs are commuting type driving, but I want to do it in style.
Otherwise I'd be getting an Echo or something. About 35km (20 miles?) each
way, on a freeway with average speeds around 80km/hour (50 mph). Very
little stop-and-go. I've got two kids (8 and 6), but we've also got a
mini-van, so I'd be the only person in the car 80+% of the time. But I
still want 4 seats, if not 4 doors.

Any comments on reliability, being a daily driver, etc? I don't really plan
on modding at all... I'm almost 40, so I think I'm past that.

Thanks in advance!

Clint

 

They'll both be excellent, really. We've had several 3.5L LH cars, and
really they've performed wonderfully, but I know a GM 3800 is just as good.
We get about 20 mpg around town, which is pretty impressive for a car as big
and powerful as a 300M. The back seat may be an area where the M is better
than the GP, but I don't have a GP. Just based on looks, I don't think the
GP wheelbase is quite as long. For one thing it's not a Bonneville.

I don't think there's any question that the GM transmissions will last
longer. You can get to 200K miles with one of those divetrains without any
trouble. 300k miles is not unusual. The 3800 also doesn't require timing
belt changes.

The 300's got more hp and it's better looking. So there you go.

 

I have a 99 300M and have owned it over 1 1/2 years and have liked it very
much..just recently had to do the Timing belt/water
pump/belts/hoses/pulleys/tensioners/etc. at the 100K mile point. That runs
around $700 if it's nearing that point. That being said, my sister has a
Grand Prix and I'd have to say I'm partial to the 300M. Guess it really
comes down to the mileage and price really, but I do think the M is a bit
roomer and stylish then the Grand Prix. Only Really big negative I have
with the 300M is the blind spots while backing up. The higher trunk deck
really gives me a hard time when backing out of spaces sometimes.

Good Luck!
Mike

 

Thanks for the quick replies, both of you!

I really like the looks of the 300M. I think I've fallen in love with it on
the outside, but I haven't even taken it for a test drive yet. It's about
an hour drive away from me, but the owners will take it in for an inspection
this week. The interior of the 300M looks SOOOO much nicer than the GP as
well, at least from the pictures I've seen.

I'm kind of used to doing my own maintenance work; any comments on whether
the timing belt/water pump/etc is a DIY thing? I just recently did the
water pump and radiator on my Jeep. Looking at the pictures, the 300M looks
much tighter in the engine compartement, however. Not as DIY friendly. Of
course, my Jeep wasn't really DIY friendly either... Extracting the 20 year
old bolts that snapped off the water pump was NOT fun. My kids learned a
few new words that time!

Both cars have around 160K km's on them (within 5K, just about 100K miles),
so they'd probably both be due for a timing belt change, if it hasn't
already been done. I do know the GP has had the intake manifold gaskets
done, which was a common point of failure on them. The GP owner is asking
for more than the 300M, but I think they're smoking drugs, personally.

As far as the dimensions go, according to autos.msn.com, the 300M has an
extra 3" on the wheelbase, but only about 1" longer overall. It's about
1.5" wider and higher too. In the interior, they're very close, with the
exception of rear legroom, where the 300M gets an extra 4". Gets a bit more
hiproom too, but not really enough in any dimension to make a practical
difference.

Unless the inspection turns up something really off the wall, I think the
300M will be my target of choice. It's a gorgeous black on black (the GP is
red, which is nice too, but not my style as much). I'd post a link to the
ad, but I don't want to jinx it!

Clint

 

My sister has a 300M also and it has been pretty reliable so far. I
wouldn't hesitate to buy the Grand Prix either though as the 3800 is
one of the best engines to ever come out of GM.

A few thoughts on the Chrysler:
They seem to eat the end links on the sway bar for breakfast
Power window assemblies aren't what they should have been.
Power lock actuators croak and make a horrible noise when the doors
lock (quite startling when they autolock at 15mph.
The trans is picky about maintenance. Make sure it has had the fluid
changed often and with the right fluid
The A/C Evaporator breaks and costs a fortune to fix. Hopefully the
one you are looking at has already had that replaced.

A few thoughts on the GM:
Intake manifold (plastic) warps around the EGR and leaks coolant in to
the oil which wipes out the bearings. Have to keep an eye on it and
quickly find out where any water is going.

I do all my own work as well but when the belt needed to be done on
the 300 I had it done. Maybe it isn't as tight as it looks but from a
visual inspection I decided I just wasn't poor enough to put myself
through that.

The fact that it has had the gaskets done would make me a little
nervous. If they let it leak for a while before those gaskets are
done serious damage could have been done to the bearings. I have also
heard a lot of complaints of repeat failures on this problem so don't
assume it is fixed forever.

I would probably pick the Chrysler for myself as well. Not that I
think it is a more reliable vehicle but I do think it is a good car
and it is very nice to drive and comfortable. It has a very nice
luxury feel to me but it still drives like a sportier car.

Steve B.

 

60K miles on our '02 300M without a problem there.

Agreed. One of ours was fixed under warranty.

Ours just click fairly loudly. That feature can be turned off anyway.

60K miles, serviced regularly by dealer, and changing transmission fluid
has never been suggested (although they do keep trying to get us to get
the fuel injectors "serviced").

Never had to replace ours, but we did have the transmission fluid cooler
replaced about 3K miles ago because it was leaking. All we paid was the
$100 deductible on the 7yr/75K warranty that we got as a freebie when
they were making way for the '03 models. Similarly for a replacement
crankshaft position sensor.

Still on the original tires, which look as though they still have a way
to go.

Perce

 

Over a year ago we gave our 99 300M to my in-laws in Florida. They love it
as we did. My wife's siblings live all over the country and drive
Infinity's, BMW's and other makes and when they visit my in-laws they all
love driving the 300M and can't believe we gave it away. In fact, I bet my
wife would consider trading her 2005 Honda Accord hybrid to her parents to
get the 300M back.

 

I would recommend the 300M.
Having had a 01 Impala 3.8L, the engine isn't as refined as the Chrysler
3.5L
The 3.8L is very old in technology with an iron block and only 12 valves
versus the all aluminum 24 Valve Chrysler.

Reliability in regards to the engine were average. I had a coolant leak
that had a recall where they would insert walnut shells to block leaks. GM
steering is horrible. There is an issue with the intermediate steering
shaft. I had mine lubed twice the 5 years that I owned it. Once under
warranty and the other time I payed $125. I was told at the second lubing
that I would need to have the steering rack replaced within the next few
years. That would cost over $1000.00.
The transmission isn't as reliable as you would think.
I took care of the fluid changes and at 57K the transmission needed a
rebuild. Horrible reliability overall.

 

When they croak you will know it. As a matter of fact the people that
live in the house next door will know it. I never heard such a racket
come out of such a little device

Steve B.

 

I would prefer the 300M over the '05 Accord hybrid (designed for power
not economy) as well.

 

Interesting comments.
So the similar GM stuff isn't any more reliable and I know how poor the
handling and responsiveness of those GM products is. OK for level
straight roads. IMO those GM cars are of 80s design.

 

The 3.8 upper intake fails near the EGR tube and leaks coolant into
the intake air stream, not the oil. Been there, done that. The
3100/3400 had the intake gasket failures, which leaked coolant into
the oil and/or the driveway. In either case, a 2000 model is likely
to have already suffered the failure and been repaired. The concern
would be by whom and how well.

 

the 300's have trans issues and rack issues, and the evap coils fail alot. the
motors are bullit proof
the grand prix has intake gaskets issues with either the 3.1 and 3.4 and the
intakes leaking coolant on the 3.8's but the trans are good and the a/c
evap.coils also have a high failure rate
i work on both cars almost daily
also the grand prixs have a high wheel bearing failure rate

 

Yeah, I thought GM made reliable transmissions but not in my case.
After I experienced my transmission failure I read the Lemon Aid book and it
mentions that 2000-2003 GM 4T65E having premature failures.
The GM 3.8L also sounds thrashy at higher RPMs.

 

People already get confused about 300 and 300M. I think you mean the 300M.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

I first started working on cars in the 70s when the words "reliable" and
"GM transmission" didn't exist in the same universe, let alone the same
sentence. My wife's Cavalier she had when we got married did nothing to
change that opinion.

Its still hard for me to get my brain around the idea that GM ever made
an automatic transmission more reliable than a Chrysler auto tranny, but
in the case of 90s vintage front-drives, its probably true. I can tell
you that comparing the latest GM to Chrysler shift quality in the scads
of rental cars I've had over the last year, Chrysler has moved FAR far
ahead. The new electronic throttle control that throttles the engine
back during shifts is much better programmed on Chryslers than GMs.

 

yes i did but i figured since the post was about the 300m it would be assumed the
post would be about it and not the 300

 

philthy wrote:

A reader might have assumed you didn't know the difference.

 

BTW, I went and picked up the 300m yesterday. So far, so good! *knock on
wood*

Did a 2 hour return trip in it from it's previous home, and all went well.
The kids loved the sunroof, having their own windows (until mean ol' Dad
locked them), and being able to put in multiple hours of "Crazy Frog" CD's.
Dad loved the cushy interior, decent performance, and 29mpg @ 75mph. I'll
see how it does on my commute tomorrow.

I know I've got some upcoming maintenance issues, like new spark plugs and
timing belt. But the previous owners sunk $900 (CAD) in the car since
October of last year, doing full fluid flushes, replacing the battery, etc,
so I should be pretty good. No major work on their last invoices, just
maintenance. And the rear brake pads need to be done...

Thanks again for the input!

Clint

 

I may have misremembered on this point: looking at the book to see what
is needed at the next service (60K miles), I noticed that changing the
transaxle fluid is recommended at 48K miles, so perhaps it did get done
as a routine matter and I forgot about it.

Perce