One reason DRLs shouldn't be opposed...

Me too, but now I see many many more instances. At least 20 times more
often than I used to before DRLs.

 

How is the increased load sensed by the ECM? Via monitoring RPM, possibly,
but how?

Nicely written, by the way.

--Geoff

 

Also, when the alternator is "full-fielded" does that mean it's seeing the
full 13.8 volts at that terminal, and the alternator is then by definition
putting out maximum capacity?

-Geoff

 

Crankshaft and/or camshaft sensor.

 

Hey Dan, bite me. Are you an asshole in real life, or just on usenet?

There is hardly a discussion of any calculations here, except for the
info on howstuffworks, and they don't break it down per vehicle. 400
million gals/year is peanuts. Nowhere in their "calculations" do they
indicate the number of cars, or covert that into MPG. So I'll do that
for you Dan.

According to the same data that HSW is using (all 1997 data)
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSF2001/2001overview.pdf

There were approx 203,568,000 vehicles registered. So per vehicle,
they are using

406 million gallons of gas / 203 million vehicles=1.99 gallons of gas
/ vehicle.

Big freakin' deal. Let's take that further:

In 1997, average MPG/vehicles was 21.5. See:
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/energy/reports/pdf_1998/table19.pdf

Using the same data from the NHSTA, average miles/vehicle is 12,585.
Which translates to 585 gallons of gas purchased per vehicle.
So add the amount DRL cost (1.99 gallons/vehicle), and you'll buy a
whopping (sarcasm on) 587 gallons of gas per vehicle.

So average mileage/vehicle has gone from 21.5 to 21.43 because of DRL.

BIG DEAL.

 

I think the issue is that you were not aware of the principle of
the conservation of energy, which is taught in any elementary physics
course (high school level).

Some people have little patience when confronted with ignorance combined
with arrogance.

 

Well, now we know why you like DRLs; apparently you are severely
vision-impaired.

Per-vehicle fuel consumption is specifically mentioned in the linked
article, and is also considerably less relevant than total usage.

 

Voltage regulators work by varying the voltage to the alternator field.
Full-fielding means bypassing the voltage sensing and regulation systems
entirely and feeding full alternator output voltage to the alternator
field. Be advised that this should be done only briefly and WITHOUT
raising the engine speed above idle, for the voltage output of a
full-fielded alternator will rise recursively and can do extensive damage
to vehicle electronics.

 

You're only saying that because it's TRUE!

DS

 

400,000,000 gallons of wasted fuel per year is peanuts? How many people could
drive using 400,000,000 gallons of gas per year? Using you own calculations of
587 gallons used per vehicle on average...DRL's equate to having an additional
683,760 more cars on the road.

But, this and you point is irrelivant. The total is what can be saved and
400,000,000 of gasoline is significant (n addition to the related reduction of
emissions).

 

Only according to Larry and Rick's "Yeah, but if you divide that by the
total number of mosquitos in the whole US, it's only one-tenth of one
picoliter per mosquito. See? It's a tiny amount!" BS illogic.

How many fewer transactions with psychotic middle eastern countries could
we have by not having DRLs? Well, let's work out the order of magnitude:

There are 44 US gallons in a US barrel of crude. Including postrefining
processes (hydrocracking, thermal cracking, catalytic reforming,
alkylation, etc.), and estimating on the high side,roughly 50% by volume
of crude can be made into gasoline. So, 22 gallons of gasoline per barrel.

Those who distrust such devious and convoluted tactics as "division" will
want to skip this next part -- Larry, Rick, please cover your eyes and go
"LA LA LA LA I'M NOT READING LA LA LA LA" for a minute or two:

400,000,000 divided by 22 gives 18,181,818. That's over 18 million barrels
of oil we *wouldn't* have to buy and transport, which means (at
$39.97/barrel, per Bloomberg this afternoon) $726,727,273 (almost seven
hundred and twenty-seven million dollars) NOT given to those who have a
nasty tendency to use it to train terrorists and set them upon us.

Here's another way of looking at it: Each gallon of gasoline burned
releases 19 pounds of CO2. For those keeping track (and not skeptical of
such iffy concepts as "multiplication"), that's Seven billion, six hundred
million pounds, or three million eight hundred thousand tons of CO2. If
you care about that sort of thing.

That's yet another way of looking at it.

DS

 

If you're not able to see a bright red car in the rain I don't know how
you avoid hitting parked cars. Besides, I seriously doubt you drive fast
enough to be able to rear end me.

I know, especially the ones on my Camaro.


Ulf

 

Depends on how you want to assign the cause. I don't consider the
manual transmission to be the proximate cause of the problem, but rather
the misfire detection system. It isn't "inherently" due to the manual
transmission. It is a little like having your house blown down by a
strong wind when your neighbors house stands firm. The difference is
that your neighbors house was built to code and your house was built
cheaply lacking hurrican straps, etc. Is the reason for the collapse of
your house the wind or the shoddy construction? One can make an
argument either way, but I wouldn't blame the wind.


Matt

 

Ulf,

It's mostly a figure of speech - but I've had too many people driving
along with only their DRL's on when they should have their lights on...
and yes, I've had a couple of close calls with that... and I doubt you
drive faster than me. (Nitrous ingesting Trans Am and a dirt track
Camaro...)

But I know you were just pushing my buttons...

 

If everyone is so upset about mandatory lights of 54w or less using so much
more extra fuel why not go after the things we really DON'T need it our
vehicles such as high powered stereos, video systems, heated seats,....
Sure all of those are nice to have but none are neccessary.

Now go spouting off about "radios provide important news bulletines" ,etc
,etc ,etc. I said high
powered radios. And I have kids and realize just how "calming" the video
systems can be but 10 years ago, even 5 years ago we all got along just fine
without them.

Mind you, I am not against any of these items but for a arguement to be
valid against DRL using extra power/fuel then you must argue against all of
the non-safety related items as well if not first.

 

Granted. My point was the inconsistencies that many people have when
they get obsessed on a particular cause when they are blind to similar
things that have a much greater impact and yet are ignored. Indicates
that we are spoiled (i.e., don't have enough to do when, in other
cultures, power consumed by DRL's, or computers for that matter are
number 3617 on their list of priorities (or plain n/a) well after how to
find the next meal or how to keep someone from killing their innocent
children, or any host of other issues).

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

"...THE MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR OR MAP SENSOR, depending on design of the
engine, DETECTS THE INCREASED AIR FLOW and the ECM then increases fuel
flow to the injectors..." - emphasis mine. I'm no expert, but I suspect
that the O2 sensors sensing a lean mixture due to more air also effect
computer adjustment of fuel injection.

Agreed

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

400,000,000 gallons of wasted fuel per year is peanuts?

Yes, because the total amount is irrelevant. As I pointed out, it's
a total of 2 gallons / vehicle / year. Cut your grass 10% less for
the summer and you'll probably save that.

That's 1 day's worth of oil in the US. That's 0.27% of the oil we
use. Peanuts.

726 million dollars is less than $3 per person in this country, for
those who aren't skeptical of such iffy concepts as "division".

Again, peanuts. There's a reason scientists use PPM and % in such
calculations, because actual numbers don't mean a thing. From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

"Volcanic activity now releases about 130-230 million metric tons
(145-255 million short tons) of carbon dioxide each year. Volcanic
releases are about 1% the amount which is released by human
activities."

So if we carry this further, total release of CO2 into the atomosphere
each year is about 130-230 BILLION TONS. Your 3 million is nothing
compared to that.

Nonsense. It's a decrease of .07 MPG.

If your goal is to save gas, DRL is nothing compared to other things
drivers can do. Filling their tires proper can increase their milage
by 3%. From 21.5 to 22.145. That 9 times the amount of gas of what
DRLs cost.

 

It's not just the extra fuel.
It's any/all of the following:

There are times when I don't NEED to have my lights on,
There are times when I don't WANT to have my lights on.
People with DRL's seem to assume they are the same as the headlights so
they drive around in the night with no taillights.
They do waste gas.
In rush hour traffic, their benefit is nil.

 

and they don't break it down per vehicle.

Of course it's more relevant. That's why standards are measured in
averages, i.e. MPG. And as we know, it's .07 MPG difference, a
whopping 0.3%. Fill your tires properly and you'll save 9 times that
amount. Turn your AC off and you'll save 30-60 times that amount.

So the real question is what is your motive for opposing DRLs, when
it's obvious there are bigger fish to fry when it comes to automotive
energy conservation.