On mpg complaints

Make sure your odometer is calibrated for true distance. If you go by
indicated distance you are in for significant error.

Your fuel fill also has to be calibrated. Start with a topped off tank.
After your run, retop with calibrated fuel fill. Gas station pumps are not
accurate enough.

Engine tune, tire pressure, tires & wheels, axle ratio, road grade, road
surface, altitude, temperature, cargo load, engine tune, clogged air
filter, etc. are going to have an effect on mileage. There are so many
variables it is irrelevant to compare your car with others except in
general terms.

It should be noted that even at $3.00 an hour, fuel is a minority
percentage of vehicle operating costs. Most young people pay much more for
insurance and depreciation. Add in maintenance and taxes, the fuel cost
DIFFERENCE among models becomes fairly trivial

 

$3.00 per hour??

On the road, you can often average between 60 and 70 miles in one hour.

If you get 15 mpg, then that is 4 to 4.7 gallons US per hour, and as we
approach
$3.00 per gallon, that comes up to $12-14 per hour.

If you average 35 miles per gallon, which is toward the high end admittedly,
then the fuel consumption approaches 1.7 to 2 gallons per hour, or about
$5 to 6 dollars per hour.

In the future, expenses for fuel, maintenance, insurance, etc may be
anything
but trivial. For those of you who make fantastic salaries,and can gladly
pee away
many hundreds of dollars per month on your ride, enjoy!

I can't .

 

So easy to do. Just watch the markers on the side of the road. See if
distances agree with the odometer.

Actually, they are. The pumps are checked by the state.

And, error is greatly reduced by taking the gallons used over several
fillups and dividing by the total distance traveled.

Not too many people change their wheels, axle ratio, engine tune (I like
classic rock and classical) or altitude that much. In a local community,
these tend to be pretty constant.

If someone travels 15,000 and gets 25 mpg, that is 600 gal or $1800. Maybe
you have a spare $1800 a year is trivial to you, but not to me. Further, the
fuel cost difference between a Ford Fusion (about 28 mpg mixed highway/city)
and a Ford Explorer (18 mpg mixed) is about $900. That's still pretty
significant to me (if you disagree, you can email me for my address and send
me a check for $900 a year). If you invest that $900 a month, it will turn
into $75,000 at the end of 30 years. I will take it if you don't want it.

I think it costs an average of about $7000-10000 a year to own and operate a
car. While saving $900 is only about 9% to 15% of the annual cost of a car,
it is still a significant amount.

Jeff

 

Assuming the odometer is off significantly. The mile markers on the
interstate can help get within a good estimation, and translated to the
odometer so can be corrected within reason. Not difficult.

You're right, although the state's facility for handling such flow to gas
tank calibration will disagree with you.

Or you can fill a five gallon transportable gas can, then dump it in the
vehicle.

Those filling a one gallon can/container find disparity between pumps at
different locales and the same location at different pumps. Another way of
maximizing profit intermittently at some locales. No, I'm not twisting the
truth. Ask a politician, lawyer, or real estate agent for that.

Get most of the gas by filling right after sunrise. Gasoline is bound by
heat for expansion. The tank in the ground that holds the gasoline at a
service station will tend to hold a constant temperature. But, its not
perfect. Avoid filling the tank in the evening.

Okay, let's compare a 88 VW Fox wagon with a 88 Chevrolet Surburban. Any
mileage, altitude, maintenance state, mfr available axle ratio, 500 lb.
load, 2 200 lb passengers, full tank of gas, ambient temperature of 80F, air
humidity of 50%, tire pressure 30 psi all tires. All equal conditions. All
encountering same hills, level areas etc. Waiting, tap, tap, tap, tap.

Depends how much you drive 10 miles or 300 miles per day to and from your
destination.
Not only is your assessment untrue, but a higher mpg vehicle is bound to
come cheaper on the costs other than gasoline you quoted. Such as the
vehicle I quoted.

 

Is there a reason that you are wondering why an apple doesn't look like an
orange??? Waiting, tap, tap, tap

Gasoline held in bulk storage will not show much in temperature
variations... this holds true whether storage is above ground or below
ground. The pump themselves are temperature corrected to a specific
value..... I think you are remembering a tale that Grandad used to tell back
when gas station operators would pump fuel up into the measuring chamber and
allow the heat of the sun to expand it before dispensing it....

Relative cost per mile can be a touchy subject.... I could have a vehicle
that offers very good cost per mile numbers that may sip gas but have a high
maintenance component... conversely, it could have a low failure/service
requirement and use more gas.... either way, I probably wouldn't drive
it.... I would imagine that *most* of us drive the vehicle of our choice...
If low fuel consumption was one of the high priorities, so be it. In the
grand scheme of things, few consider fuel mileage as a priority until after
the "gloss" wears off.... It is then, and only then, that people come to
realize that that 4X4, SUV or that V8 powered whoopy-car was purchased using
the little head rather than the big head.....I will continue to drive those
things that suit my lifestyle and the price at the pump island is one of
those costs...

If fuel costs were really the big deal that many try to make them seem,
lifestyles would be rearranged and bus passes would be purchased (and before
you take me to task about remote areas, you need to realize that northern
Alberta IS remote areas...).

 

You said it. The ground is nearly constant in temperature. There is not much
difference in temperature, so the the effort of filling up in the morning is
not worth it, because there is little to gain.

Jeff

 

You buy the same amount of gasoline in the morning as in the
afternoon. It just comes in a smaller package in the morning. The
pumps are calibrated to deliver "standard gallons" or "standard
liters", which will WEIGH the same amount regardless of temperature,
but have a varying volume. When the "feds" come to check the
calibration on the pump (at least years ago when I was pumping gas)
they pumped a given quantity, then measured the temperature and
applied a correction factor to the graduations on their test can.
Winter or summer, the pumps did not vary more than a percent or two.

Now, for testing fuel mileage, the most accurate method is to take 4 5
gallon cans of fuel and an almost empty tank. Drive 'till it stops,
and add 3 cans. Then drive till it stops again, and note the total
accumulated mileage. Add the 4th can and drive to the nearest gas
pump. Do it again, and average the results.

On carbureted engines I used to have a graduated 1 gallon container
with a fuel line on it. I'd connect it to the fuel pump, and fill it
up. Run the engine to make sure all the air was out, and the fuel
level was down to the "full" mark, then drive untill the fuel level
was down to the -1 gallon mark - write down mileage. Refill, turn the
car around, and head back, repeating the test in the opposite
direction. Average the two.

With EFI and return fuel systems, this gets a bit more complicated.

*** ***

 

That's an understatement that most US folks wont appreciate unless they live
in Alaska.

Richard

 

Here in Vancouver the evening is usually the best fill up time.
Reason- there are little price drops in the evening.

 

Same here (Ottawa Ontario). Price this morning was $1.05 per liter, price at
11:00pm was $0.91. In Ottawa right now the price follows the same pattern
daily; Price rise at 11:30pm roughly, remains stable overnight, drops 10-15
cents throughout the day, and then re-rises at 11:30pm.

 

That's a good way to waste gas trying to start it again. <
I measure my mileage by recording all fuel and mileage.
Then I calculate city and highway driving separately and combine them
for an overall figure.
Nothing unreal, just my real life driving.
For an accurate test to compare with the EPA I measure highway mileage
over a longer trip of at least two tank fullls. Since my speed is higher
than the EPA cycle I expect a difference.

The results can be very surprising, like my 3.3L Concord gets similar
overall mileage to my previous 60's & 70's VM Beatles, '70 Datsun 510
and better mileage than my 63 6 Cyl Chev II- all the previous were stick
shifts.
Another difference I see when renting cars for a few weeks is Chrysler
cars are near or slightly below the EPA highway figure, Ford's are
always 10+% lower than the EPA.
GM cars get the best mileage, but recently below the EPA figure with
cars like the 3.4L (2005) Impalla which has too high a high gear and
third gear too much lower than high. It badly needs a 5 sp transmission.
Of course my real life tests are very related to my driving style and
road conditions.

 

Thanks for emphasizing my point with $ cost. The surface ground temperature
is coldest just at sunrise, warms throughout the day. So is the pump, its
internals, the hose etc. Gradually cools after sunset. This affects the
volume of gasoline pumped. A gallon of gasoline is a volume, not a weight.
Despite naysayers both of the state that supervises the gasoline pump
calibration, and all that don't understand it. The state may call it a
bureau of weights and standards. Hello, anybody reading here?

So, with the price of gasoline the same price, sunrise or sunset, in
reference to the Canadian standard of raising the price of gasoline in the
early morning and dropping that price at noon, when is the best time to fill
the tank in the USA?????????

Get off your butt, and fill the tank in the AM before getting to work.

 

Your theory is just that, theory. Do you have any real fiburs to back up
what yousay? Have you done tests? Taken measurments?

 

Your theory is just that, theory. Do you have any real figures to back up
what you say? Have you done tests? Taken measurements? What will my
savings be on a day with a 20 or 30 degree temperature swing? What is the
temperature swing of the gas in the ground? How long does it take for the
gas in the hose to expand enough to make a difference? This part is already
past the measuring device anyway. Using your theory, you'd also get a
better buy by following a driver that just filled up with premium as that is
what is in the hose.

Put this into hard numbers from real like measurements and I'll take you
seriously.

 

Your thinking is in the fuel pump technology past.
The gasoline pumps are no longer that stupid.