Oldsmobile joins Plymouth: RIP

This kind of generalized statement just isn't true across the board.

Yes, many public companies are run like this, but not all. And certainly
not
ones who have products that depend on long term sales.

The real issue is that a lot of companies simply produce products that
only HAVE short term profit needs. Like the oil companies that sell
gasoline, the soft drink companies that sell coca-cola, the fast food
companies that sell hamburgers. These products never change and
so it is right and natural that the company officers run them around short
term profits - because there is no real long term market here. Rather,
the markets are static and saturated, and there's only a few major players
and there's really nothing that you can do long term that is going to help
corner the market. Remember the disaster that "New Coke" was, that
was an effort to make Coke taste more like Pepsi so as over the long
term to steal all the Pepsi customers. Of course, the existing Coke
drinkers didn't appreciate it, and so while the market grew one direction it
shrank in another, and so Coke ended up gaining nothing.

But if you look at other companies like Cisco, 3com, Microsoft, etc. those
companies, while publically held, are definitely run in a way to maximize
long term profits at the expense of short term profits and the shareholders
are completely satisfied with it. Consider that the products from these
companies change quite a lot over the years, every time that you have a
new product come down the pike then everyone's market is pretty much
an open slate, because the consumers of those products have little brand
loyalty. The only way your going to survive is if your looking out for the
long term so you can keep the product pipe full of new products in
development.

The problem with the car companies is that these are markets that when
they were originally created, back in the early 1900's, they were markets
that really demanded long-term planning. The car companies that survived
did it by long term planning. Then once the market became established,
cars became a commodity, from the 1930's to the 1970's, the basic
internal combustion engine didn't change much and the basic car designs
didn't change much either with the exception of the cosmetic frippery.
Thus, short term planning produced good results with these markets.

Now it appears the basic auto design is approaching a fundamental
nexus because it's going to have to change tremendously. Gas prices
are skyrocketing and will remain high for years. Emission regulations
are far tighter and will get even tighter. Right now nobody knows what
the next auto engine design will be - whether hybrid, electric, diesel or
whatever, but everyone agrees that at the current designs aren't
supportable over the long haul. So, long term planning is becoming
needed once again, but the automakers mentality hasn't got it yet.

Ted

 

Where is this thread going comparing unitized frame and body junkers to
junkers.

Anyone with common sense would not buy a American Motors especially Pacer or
the alternate Gremlin.

Now here comes Chrysler with their mass produced concept vehicle PT
(Plymouth Truck) Cruiser GT (Gran Touring?).

I can't wait for quite a few $27K wrecks or junkers to appear in the auto
grave yards as candidates for street rod parts for the REAL American made
Prewar vehicles.

 

Probably none. Why would you make such a statement? Auto makers have
used performance figures when comparing against their competitors ever
since the automobile was invented.

--

(Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94)

"What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman

Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at
my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim.

 

So its the tires fault? I don't know what kind of race drivers you watched,
but if they were losing all their performance spinning tires, they needed
how to be taught to drive. Gimmie a break, why don't you go stick your head
back into the sand? And Wow, a 305 can eat a 150 hp PT for lunch! (most PTs
are NONturbos) What an accomplishment!! what's next VW Bugs?

 

None ... yet.
But the year ain't over yet.


Joe

 

Most of the data was not from that site. I just couldn't find any
actual data for the PT Cruiser with a manual transmission. However,
Autoweek and Car & Driver both show the automatic at 7.2 seconds
(tested). The manual version of the non-turbo version of the PT
Cruiser is about 2 seconds faster than the automatic.

Also, Autoweek's article about the automatic says "You can usually
knock almost a second off a 0-to-60 time with a manual transmission,
and the five-speed manual is standard in this car."

 

Are you really so dumb as this sounds?

Of COURSE bias-ply tires made a huge difference. That doesn't mean the
drivers spun them all the way down the track, but if you have to back
off the launch to AVOID spinning the tires, the ET suffers a lot. 60s
muscle cars run MUCH faster on modern radial tires than they did on the
original bias plies. A '69 Roadrunner or Coronet R/T would run in the
mid 14s on bias ply tires according to most road tests at the time, and
they're easily mid-13 cars on modern rubber.

 

Ford never made a 305... it's an insult to the 302 (or GM's 67-69 302)
to call it such.

-Bret

 

I wonder if that's where this guy got his parts for this monster (used
in the good sense of the word):
http://tinyurl.com/2ggbx

Note the driving position.

Joe

 

Hey Butt-head;
The quoted poster said that they spin tires for 3 to 4 seconds down the
track, I didn't say bias-ply tires made NO difference, but for anyone to
judge a cars performance statistics spinning the tires that long is an...,
well, not that smart. I'm sure people trying to measure a car's performance
today still have to worry about spinning tires, although not as much. You
might want to read the the post I was responding to before jumping in with
your insulting response, which there was no need for.

 

Does the picture at http://tinyurl.com/2ggbx depict a prewar vehicle?

Ha, Ha Ha, Ha, It does give a good laugh being at MuscleCars.Net!

I wonder if it has a 440 6 pack with a beefed up Torqueflite?

 

No one called it such. I simply did a conversion from the nominally
stated 5.0 liters. I didn't realize it was an emotional number.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Kind of like screwing up English in a sentence like you did above...

 

My father from 1969 to 1975 ran SS/A. That's NHRA Drag Racing Super
Stock, A class. This was before they had P/S or Pro Stock. Using a 1969
Yenko Camaro with a Built 427. Running against the likes of Bill "Grumpy"
Jenkins.

My fathers car would Spin the slicks in 4th gear at half track if full
throttle was given. So at half track, a car modified to the extent allowed
by the class rules, was losing traction. Yet was still running 11's in the
1/4 mile.

I have not only tracked that car down, and talked to the current owner.
I also know that car is illegal to run at a drag strip these days. It is too
fast for it's level of safety equpiment. Which is factory 1969 Camaro seat
belts. No roll cage. Who's going to distroy a car wouth a half million to
put a roll cage in it?

As for race drivers I have watched, I have watched some of the best. I
have even known a few. I have watched many old films from the 60's & 70's of
cars going down a drag strip. If you ever look at a film of an old "Sling
Shot" front engine dragster going down the 1/4 mile, you will see the tires
smoke from start to finsh. And they were going over 180 MPH when they went
to rear engine dragsters aka "Diggers" in Top Fuel Dragster (TF/D).

As for my 305, considering the truck empty weights over 5,000 pounds,
and has 300+K mimes on the all orginal driveline. That's pretty impressive.
Then you take in to account it was only rated at 170HP new and that should
tell you a lot. BTW: it only has 3.08 rear gears, so it desn't start really
pulling till 70 MPH.
Charles

 

Actually I said Most real Muscle cars (Big Block intermediate & pony
cars), are as much as 3 to 4 seconds quicker. Don't mis-quote.
Charles

 

Well excusssssseee meeee!! I didn't know my typing abilities were being
graded, who are you? the newsgroup punctuation gestapo? Get a life

 

dam that pt is faster than your favorite big block ford

 

So, going back to your original flame, you drag race 150 hp PT Cruisers,
with your 170 hp 5000 lb 300k miles truck and "eat them for lunch". Well,
as Chris Rock would say, "What do you want, a cookie?" Do these people even
know that they are racing? Me, when I see some idiot drag racing me down a
street to get to the next light, I take my foot off the gas to stay away
from him, and hope the cops ticket that idiot before he kills someone.

Boy, for a guy who supposedly knows a lot about cars/trucks, that was a
smart buy. A 5000 lb truck with a 170hp engine. That you also drag race
people on the street with. Unless you take it to the track? Ok, you win,
whatever you say....

 

it's amazing that people forget how far and fast the HP race has come
in the LD truck market. in 1986, a chevy 350 put out 165 HP; 1987,
210HP; 1996, 255HP. in the last 5 years it's gone from having zero
vehicles (trucks) with 300 HP (the 1998 454 had 295HP) to almost EVERY
truck having 300 PLUS hp. horse power isn't everything. just ask the
guy with his '89 W250 diesel how much his 165HP Cummins can pull.

-Bret

 

Actually I get challenged pretty often. My 300+K carburator has an
erradic idle circut. So it sounds like it has a big cam. Maybe I should have
put a third baffle the mufler I hand built for the truck. I uncorked the
exhaust system for more low end torque. That truck is used to tow cars,
trailers, boats, and even my off road truck. It also huals parts for the
shop, as well as any trash the shop generates. So I wouldn't say it's a race
truck.

On the same Token. When some punk catches me in the right mood, I will
take them light to light. Or if they try to cut me off on the freeway.

Most of the PT drivers that I have seen trying to challenge people to a
race are young punks who think they have something fast.

When I get the new motor ready for the truck, Ill take her to the track
then. I was going to put in my old .40 over 350, but I recently got a better
engine to build for her.
Charles