Oil Change observation

Yesterday I changed the oil and filter on our 2001 T&C 3.8. After
draining the oil pan, I ran the engine for about 10 seconds. Quite a bit
of additional oil started draining out. I then replaced the drain plug
and changed the filter. After letting the recommended 4.5 quarts settle
in, a check of the level showed it to be about 3/4 of a quart low.

I was surprised that that much old oil remains in the engine.

WVK

 

Very stupid thing to do.

 

Which begs the question: Why?

 

Wayne, do as you want, it's your set of wheels, but I wouldn't start an
engine up, even for 10 seconds, when the oil is drained. There is an oil
film that clings to the metal so you probably didn't do it any real harm,
but it sure isn't good for it either. If you are that concerned with getting
all the dirty oil out, drain it, add a couple of quarts of new oil and leave
it run for a minute or two and then drain it again, change the filter and
refill the crankcase. BTW, the service manual I have says it holds 5 1/4
quarts with filter.

Denny

 

It is often said that there's "no such thing as a stupid question". That's
wrong; there certainly is. A stupid question is the kind that's asked even
though a few moments' additional thought on the part of the asker would
reveal the answer. This is in contrast to a question asked out of
ignorance, which the asker could not answer even if he thought and thought
and thought about it.

Yours is the stupid kind.

 

Why only 10 seconds? LOL

(If engines did not need oil to run without self-destruction, there would
not be any used in there in the first place.)

 

Canadian or American quarts??
Or Liters?

 

Sorry, U.S. quarts

Denny

 

Actually it was more like, at most, 5 seconds, started it then
immediately turned it off. (Next time I will add Slick 50 before
changing so it can be run dry for 1/2 hour The owners manual under
Fluid Capacities has "Engine Oil 4.5 quarts" mentions nothing about with
or without filter. But since it did require 5 1/4 Qt. perhaps the
additional oil got pumped from the filter and associated plumbing when I
dry started it. I guess that would make the procedure both risky and
pointless.

WVK

 

Your thoughtful commentary is duly noted.
WVK

 

Before you try that Slick 50 experiment with your van motor, get an old lawn
mower that is close to used up and add the Slick 50 to it. Then try your
experiment on it. When the motor ties up after a few minutes, you won't be
out much. No, I don't believe all the advertisements about slick 50,
duralube, spooge-in-a-tube and all the rest. If that stuff worked like it is
advertised, you would have no need for any internal lubrication or cooling
systems cause there would be no heat build up cause there wouldn't be any
friction.

Denny

 

At MoparFest in New Hamburg 2 weeks ago, they did the "engine blow"
contest, where you pay to guess how long an engine will run with a
brick on the accellerator before it blows up. Saterday's car was a 2.0
liter Pontiac Sunfire. To avoid antifreeze and oil all over the track
when it lets go, they drain the oil and antifreeze before starting the
engine. Darn thing ran over 20 minutes before it blew up - and that
was WITHOUT Slick 50 or DuraLub.

 

So it's not necessarily that you're *unable* to think -- it's that you're
*unwilling* to do so.

Fascinating. Sad, but fascinating.

 

| Yesterday I changed the oil and filter on our 2001 T&C 3.8. After
| draining the oil pan, I ran the engine for about 10 seconds. Quite a bit
| of additional oil started draining out. I then replaced the drain plug
| and changed the filter. After letting the recommended 4.5 quarts settle
| in, a check of the level showed it to be about 3/4 of a quart low.
|
| I was surprised that that much old oil remains in the engine.

Keep that up and you'll be changing an engine.

 

I was kidding about the Slick 50 which I understand to be snake oil.
However considering this 20 minute to blew example I have doubts that
running an engine for a few seconds without oil will harm it if it was
fully warmed up and fully lubricated (as it was) then shut down right
before draining the pan. OTOH I wouldn't try this on a cold engine.

WVK

 

Another thing to remember is your hydraulic lifters are running with no oil
pressure. I would think you would have a bit of valve train noise after a
few seconds of running.

Denny

 

You need to understand that the rod and main bearings in an engine in
operation
are oil bearings. In short, the crankshaft rides on a thin, microscopically
thin, oil
film. There is no metal-to-metal contact between the crankshaft and the
bearings
at speed.

This oil film only exists because oil is being pumped under high pressure
into the
bearings, of course the oil comes out the sides of the bearings, but as long
as the
oil is flowing into the bearings through the journals, this film is
maintained.

When you don't have a steady flow of oil going to the bearings, such as when
you
are sucking air into the oil system, and air bubbles are going to these
bearings, the
oil film is wiped away and the crank starts rubbing against the main and rod
bearings.
Very shortly after that the bearing material is destroyed and your engine
sounds
like an old threshing machine which someone dumped a load of pea gravel into
it's gearbox - that is, if a rod don't seize and the rod be driven through
the
side of the engine block.

You probably took 20-30,000 miles of life off your engine in the 10 seconds
it
was running on dry bearings.

Ted

 

You initially said the filter was replaced, but comments below seem to
contradict the previous note. (You should change the filter at the same
time you change the oil.) Doing so gets that last 1/2 quart without ever
needing to turn over the engine. (I agree with others that attempting to
run an engine without oil is not a good thing to do.) If you insist on
"pumping out the last little bit, then I'd suggest using the starter motor
and disabling the ignition system. But, keep in mind that when the engine
is started it will take longer to get oil pumped back to where you succeeded
in blowing it out from. I don't think it is worth the risk to get this
little bit, especially if you change it at 3K mile intervals.

Bob

 

I drained the oil, ran the engine, let the additional oil drain, replace
the drain plug, moved the drainpan under the oil filter, removed and
replaced the filter, added 4.5 quarts of oil, ran the engine for a bit,
let the oil settle back into the oil pan (sump) then checked the level
which was slightly above "min" on the dipstick. The owners manual
states "Fluid Capacities: Engine Oil 4.5 quarts". No mention if that
includes a filter or not. I assumed it did because Chrysler recommends
replacing both the oil and filter at each change. (Since the engine is
designed to run with a filter, why would Chrysler state the oil capacity
without a filter?) As a result it seemed that about 3/4 qt of oil was
being left behind since that much additional oil was required to reach
"max". Quite a bit more than "pumping out the last little bit".


WVK

 

And you *really* can't figure out why this was a stupid thing to do?
Really?