NYC Auto Show: Chrysler Prez arrives on stage in butt-ugly Fiat

And it's always the senators and congressmen from the other states
that's the problem - eh Bill?

By the way, how is Al Franken doing in Minnesotta? Have they called
that race yet?

And what do you think of the way they screwed with Ted Stevens in
Alaska?

And are they going to do the same thing with Blagojevich (drop the
charges) ?

 

To me, taxing anything just because you can is no different than piracy,
and piracy (taking money that doesn't belong to you just because you
can), whether by individuals or a government, is wrong.

I believe in drilling everywhere we can. Prohibiting us from drilling
in certain off-shore locations when other entities will drill those same
locations has *no* defense, environmental or otherwise. Drill the tiny
area of Alaska too. Let's quit artificially limiting the supply of oil.

Also - go nuclear. And don't destroy the coal industry like Obama
promised to do.

Preventing drilling and nuclear and destroying the coal industry is just
a mechanism (call it a conspiracy if you want, because that's what it
is) by the transfer-of-wealth crowd to force *exactly* the things you
mentioned.

Throw cap and trade into that mix too. Also include the FDIC
threatening to ruin any bank with a five-year audit if they pay back
their TARP loans early - you talk about piracy and fascism - we've got
it brother!

 

Caliber. CaliBer. With a B, not a P. Dammit.

A caliPer is a measuring tool. CaliBer is either what a caliPer measures
(the diameter of a round object, as in the gauge of a bullet or bore of
a gun). Or, as is likely intended by using it as the name of the car, it
is a degree of excellence.

Annoys me almost as much as spelling "Dexron" with a T after the X.

 

Back when I used to actually drive my '49 Plymouth Special Deluxe coupe,
it would get around 20-21 mpg. That always amazed me since it has the
aerodynamics of a brick, and a whopping 7.0:1 compression ratio and
something like a 3.7:1 final drive ratio (it can stay with traffic at 70
MPH, but its not happy there- it would much rather cruise at 60). Skinny
tires and a lack of power-robbing accessories make a huge difference in
efficiency. If someone would build a Caliber-sized car with no power
steering (not needed for a car that small anyway, power brakes (also not
needed for a car that small), or power windows, seats, and locks, it
could probably push 50 mpg, still have AC, and go like stink.

 

Steve,
Why don't you still drive your 49? Are you a member of an antique car
club? My wife and I have been many hundreds of miles on our former 40
Royal Club Coupe, and after the front end gets rebuilt on the 41
Windsor 4 door, hope to drive many hundreds more. Those old flathead
6's and 8's were amazing at how efficient they were. Of course,
people would not buy a car without the power accessories today. Our
2007 Caliber is getting 30-31 mpg, and I agree with you: power
steering and brakes are not needed on a car this small. Power windows
are a good security and convience feature, I don't see how they
detract from mileage. As far as I know, the Caliber does not offer
power seats, again not needed on any car, as far as I am concerned. I
credit the CVT transmission for the excellent mileage and the
efficient 2.0 engine.




"What do you mean there's no movie?"

 

<sigh>

It got pushed to the back of the priority list when I a) got married, b)
got more career demands on my time, c) had a daughter, d) got the '69
Coronet R/T (more my era, but I still love the '49), e) remodeled the
house the first time (and its doe for another...) f) the daughter
started high school, g) I got the Jeep for the daughter to drive and got
all interested in *it*.... In other words, Life happened ;-) I wouldn't
trade the life for the car, but I still have it, its stored indoors, and
maybe when I retire in a few more years....

I am, but its more a of a '60s car emphasis. Still, there are a few
other guys with old flatheads too. Some day...

I just DO NOT understand that. IF anyone would ever *drive* a light car
without PS, they'd see that its really unnecessary on light cars and
very much detracts from the steering feel. As for power brakes.. heck,
I've converted two of my '60s cars to manual disks from power disks, and
I really wouldn't go back except maybe on the heavier C-body. The B-body
(3800 lb) is perfect with a well chosen ratio of master cylinder
diameter to caliper piston diameter. The only price you pay is a
slightly longer pedal stroke, but the feel is very precise- more so than
the damped feel of power brakes.
Our

Just weight. By themselves, power windows wouldn't detract much, but
throw in all the other power devices, and things get heavy. I've read
that modern power window systems are actually lighter than manual window
regulators. Maybe so, but I doubt it by the time you throw in the wiring
(copper isn't light) and switches. But the other stuff all adds weight
and/or a direct power draw from the engine.

Not to hijack the thread (oops, too late...) tell me about the CVT. I've
read that its programmed to have "shift points" like a conventional
automatic so that it won't "confuse customers" (I know the masses
collectively are stupid, but why do they have to assume everyone is
stupid? And un-educatable?) That seems to be corroborated by people
who've driven Caliber rentals and when I asked them about the CVT, they
say "THAT thing is a CVT?!? I thought it was just the crappiest
automatic I've ever driven!" I keep hoping to get a Caliber, Compass or
Patriot rental so that I can fool with it myself, but I never have yet.
I have heard that the software can be re-flashed to make it behave
like a true CVT, and that seems like it would add another 2-3 mpg versus
forcing "shift points" that send the engine back down into the lugging zone.

 

Steve,
They may have done that in the earlier models, but ours was a later
model 2007, August, and it feels like an airplane going down the
runway, continuous, smooth power flow. We can cruise at 65 and the
engine is running at 2K RPM's. On our way up to 65, we don't feel any
shifting of the transmission at all.
In my 41, the Fluid Drive acts much like that, smooth power get away,
then lift my foot up on the accelerator, shifting into high, not much
feeling there, then smoothly up to about 60-65. Mine is the Vacamatic
4 speed Fluid Drive, very smooth, without the "clunk" of the later M-6
electric/hydraulic Fluid Drive of post-war cars.

 

The Metropolitan was a nice little 2 door car.
Too expensive for me then, but I fit in it. Note it was designed by the
British Austin designers. The British are our body size.

 

You obviously haven't driven a FWD car that size without power steering.
The smaller early Chrysler Horizons and Ford Escorts didn't have power
steering, very difficult for parking.

 

If I liked the CaliBer styling I'd be more likely to spell it correctly.
<
Now if Chrysler could put that drive train into a nice looking body,
they'd have something. I'm sure it's sales would then be where they
should be.

 

If I can spell "democrat" and remember the last letter isn't "p", you
can spell "Caliber".

Oddly, I sort of like the look of it. It's hearing Mitsu had a remote
influence on the platform and engine that ensures I'll stay far, far
away. I owned a Sapporo once.

 

Actually, its exactly BECAUSE of once driving a manual-steering Horizon
that I think all small cars *should* be manual steering. It was
perfectly acceptable. Heck, A Valiant with manual steering was fine too.

 

It's a "no brainer" that anything built by Mercedes in any price class
will be more expensive than "the masses" will buy, regardless of how
small the vehicle might be.

As for SMART for Two, did anybody see the results of the recent small vs
mid-size offset-frontal crash tests? The SMART allegedly went airborne
after the crash into a small Mercedes car. Dramatics???

Mercedes might have more "cache" than Fiat, but Fiat's fleet is more
"green" (i.e., less CO emissions) than any other car company. Their
strength is in smaller cars that get really good fuel economy, a place
that Chrysler became weak when the Neon was discontinued and replaced by
the larger and boxier, heavier, and less fuel efficient Calibre.

The "combination" of Chrysler LLC and Fiat is more beneficial to Fiat
than "the merger of equals" was for Mercedes. Fiat needs a North
American sales network to plug into and Chrysler has that.

In the end, the hoops that the Auto Task Force is making the car
companies jump through will most probably weaken the industry before it
recovers. Fewer dealers = fewer total sales = lower corporate profits,
even with less corporate overhead = more oppotunities for non-domestic
brands to further erode the USA brands of vehicles' market share and
seemingly continue the downward spiral rather than end it.

What has happened to the "grow the business" approach to doing business?
The Asians seem to have that part of marketing down well, but all that
everybody seems to think will save the USA brands is LESS of them and
LESS dealers to sell them in FEWER towns of the country? Another
example of the non-domestic brands doing "right" as the domestic brands
used to do it, but can't do it now due to all of the financial experts
saying not to?

Seasoned Chrysler dealers will recall all of the issues with
non-Chrysler brands suddenly infiltrating their dealerships. Parts
inventories swell with little benefit. Sales training for the new
brands of vehicles can be problematic, as can the salespeople's ability
to deal with "non-traditional" customers who might never have ever
thought they'd be in a Chrysler showroom . . . ever, but are there to
look at Fiats.

Ford might be in hock to their eyebrows, but it's to private banks
rather than to the government.

I certainly hope that every government operative that advocates "tough
decision" or "unpopular choices" might have to deal with decreased or
cut penion benefits, decreased insurance coverage, lost wages or a
replacement job that pays considerably less than the automotive job the
government loan officers took from them. It's one thing for these
high-powered government people to say these things MUST be done, but a
completely 'nuther thing if THEY are the ones it's happening to.

Regards,

C-BODY

 

Depends on the country...

In Germany the smaller Mercs (incl C Class) are in the Top 10 sellers, along
with BMW and, of course, VW. The Golf is always at or near No. 1.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---

[...]

 

This is where Chrysler's logic breaks down.

Yes, those recent small car (micro-car) tests show that they're
significantly less safe in a real-world crash situation.

North-Americans have increasingly bought large trucks and SUV's for the
past decade primarily for "family protection" reasons rather than
practical reasons.

Chrysler's desire to acquire a micro-car line from Fiat will turn into a
disaster.

Any such car will not be priced low enough or will deliver high enough
milage compared to Chrysler's current small car offerings to offset the
percieved or real disadvantages in crash safety or transportation
practicality.

Aside from that, we here in North America simply don't need to go the
extra step down to something that's Fiat-sized because of the size of
our roads, our parking spaces or garages.

Tangent: How much does a Mini Cooper cost, and why don't we see more of
them here in North America?

 

That's the problem with the government dictating to the makers what they
will make and market - they're in effect going to tell you what you want
and need. You just *think* you know what you want and need.

 

BTW, I did not include the Smart range, which sells well in larger cities
like Rome & London, and is not normally included in Merc-branded vehicles.
Top Merc is/was C Class, AFAIK.

As I hadn't looked at the stats for some time I was looking for them. So
far could not find the detail but some figures by brand might be
interesting. The data is for 2007 and 2008. I suspect 2009 will be skewed
towards smaller cars. Plus there will be the 'scrappage' payment effect,
which has boosted sales noticeably.

1. VW Volkswagen 608.820 615.229
2. Mercedes Daimler 327.742 327.965
3. Opel Opel 285.267 258.274
4. BMW BMW 284.889 284.767
5. Audi Audi 249.305 251.393
6. Ford Ford 213.843 217.308
7. Renault Renault 140.281 147.167
8. Toyota Toyota 132.535 95.781
9. Skoda Skoda 118.682 121.277
10. Peugeot Peugeot 93.394 94.676

22. Smart Daimler 31.974 33.805
23. Chevrolet Chevrolet Deutschland 25.245 21.305
24. Chrysler Chrysler 18.658 14.524
25. Porsche Porsche 17.663 16.221
26. Alfa-Romeo Fiat 11.568 7.597

This is the link to the stats

http://www.wer-zu-wem.de/ranking/zulassungen/

In the course of the search I also found that the reliability of Japanese
cars, once tops, is declining relative to German cars, which have beccome
much better, with Audi in the lead, closely followed by Daimler & BMW.
These are figures produced by the ADAC, the largest of the German motoring
organizations

I shall try to find the Top 10 by specific model, but the sun is shining
here and I would rather go out with my son...

I don't know the price of a Mini-Cooper. Ask BMW why not more sold in
USA... Probably not much call for it when it was British-owned. Not sure it
was that reliable and who (other than a few enthusiastic New Yorkers) would
want a tiny car in NA? I remember sitting in a Mini next to a London bus.
Having the wheels up to my eyeballs did not inspire confidence... Now that
the Mini is a conventional car looking like the old Mini and owned by BMW it
might sell to San Franciscans, Bostonians and Chicagoans as well... It ain't
cheap, AFAIK.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---

 

And doesn't free-market advertising tell you what you think you want??

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

 

FWIW, more stats about the Gerrman car market (the largest in Europe).

As expected, mosr recently there has been a huge swing towards smaller, more
economical cars.

Changes Jan - Mar 09 v same period in 08:

http://www.kba.de/cln_007/nn_330190...atlich/200903__n__top50__teil1__diagramm.html

http://www.kba.de/cln_007/nn_330190...atlich/200903__n__top50__teil2__diagramm.html

These are the Top 50 in alphabetical order.


Here are the stats for the Top 50 for March 2009 but not ordered by model:

http://www.kba.de/cln_007/nn_330190...natlich/200903__n__top50__teil1__tabelle.html

http://www.kba.de/cln_007/nn_330190...natlich/200903__n__top50__teil2__tabelle.html

Note the 5 diesel in column 5. Merc E Class was 82%!

No. 1 is still VW Golf/Jetta

2. VW Polo
3. Skoda (VW) Fabia.

As expected, Merc et al have lost lots of ground in the very recent past.
BMW 3 and Merc C Class were in Top 5.

The KBA is the govt vehicle licensing authority. More stats are available
for purchase.


For UK I have only data by manufacturer:

http://www.smmt.co.uk/articles/article.cfm?articleid=19362

Hit "Download Report".

In March month and YTD Ford (of Europe) is still at the top, followed by
Vauxhall (GM).

The list to no. 26 (Chevrolet) is (sales Mar YTD):

Ford 82 000 (17.2%)
Vauxhall 65 000 (13.53%)
Volkswagen 39 000 (8.06%)
Toyota
Peugeot
Audi
BMW
Honda
Mercedes-Benz
Citroen
Nissan
Renault
Mazda
Fiat
Hyundai
Kia
MINI
Land Rover
SEAT
Volvo
Suzuki
Skoda
Jaguar 5 000 (0.95%)
Chevrolet 3 000 (0.72%)

If Audi & Skoda were added to VW that group would be no. 1 by a significant
margin.

The UK is the main European 'export' market for German manufacturers

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---
[...]

[...]

 

There's a huge difference. One is an advertisement that I can ignore,
and I can send a message back to the manufacturer by what I do and do
not buy. In the other case, the government is going to decide on
whether it favorably or unfavorably treats that particular manufacturer
that it essentially now owns according to if the company makes what it
says they have to make, not according to what the people want to buy or
what's actually best.

One is free market, the other is government run - one is trying to
persuade you, the other is by force of government - see the difference?

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')