Noisy brakes on 1996 Chrysler T&C with ABS

My '96 Town and Country started making noises a couple of years ago when
braking. Noise seems to eminate from the rear drums. Particularly in warm
weather, they make a loud "Whump, Whump, Whump,etc." sound and the brake
pedal pulsates slightly. I've had three different mechanics check it out and
they all said the brakes are in good shape and there is nothing wrong with
them. The vehicle only has 42, 000 miles on it and I don't know what to do
next.

 

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Take it to someone that can tell you what the problem is. Some squeaks and
grind noises are normal especially on cold damp damps.
Noises and pulsations need to be checked out by a qualified technician.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

Thanks, but where does one find a "qualified" technician? Do you think it
would help to replace the rear brake shoes? One mechanic cleaned the drums
and sanded the shoes. That helped for about two days.

 

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Word of mouth finds a good shop with good tech's. If the brakes are making a
whoop whooop noise and pulsating it sounds to me like maybe they are seizing
up, getting hot and doing this. It could even have something to do with the
emergency brake system.
If you are asking me if putting new shoes on will fix it, I cant answer that
without seeing or hearing the problem.
I think the problem is something sticking.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

<snip>

Hi...

Not at all qualified to answer this, but if I may I can
tell a related story in the hope that it may be helpful...

About 10 years ago had an Olds that developed the annoying
habit of locking up one of the rear wheels (drum) if you
so much as thought about touching the brake pedal. The wetter
or more humid it was the worse. I guess because brake fluid
is hydroscopic. Scared a lot of folks by "screeching" to a
(safe, but only I knew it) stop behind them.

Took the wheel apart, found the teensiest wheel cylinder leak,
just an ever so slight wet-ishness around the seal.

Being of the waste not want not generation, replace the
cylinder, cleaned the drum thoroughly with brake cleaner,
and sanded the shoes so they looked like new.

Worked perfectly for a couple of days, and then failed.

Took it apart, cleaned and sanded even more thorougly, and
again good for a couple of days. Did this several times;
always perfect and then failed.

Finally got smart; bought new shoes and installed 'em,
cleaned everything in sight, and it worked fine for as
long as I owned the thing.

Just for whatever it may be worth...

Take care.

Ken

 

Ken,
Thanks for letting me know about your brake problem. I'm of the opinion that
it might be wise to replace the rear brakes. The only thing I'm wondering is
could it be something wrong in the ABS?

Don

 

Thanks, Glenn,

Could it have something to do with the ABS? I live in a small city (less
than 60,000) so choices of really good auto techs is somewhat lacking. I'll
relate the information you sent to the next brake technician I take the van
to. Thanks again.

Don

 

Hi Don...

I stand ready to be corrected by the mechanics here, but I
suspect that your abs is working fine... proving it every
time you've stopped lately

Willing to bet you a dollar to a doughnut that you have
exactly the same problem I had, with the only difference
being that the old Olds had no abs.

So - everytime I braked the wheel locked up solid; whereas your
abs is preventing lock up. Then the abs releasing the brakes
causes the whump sound everytime it applies/releases, and the
jiggle you're feeling in the pedal is just normal for the abs.

If dollars are a little tight, and/or service is far away,
it was pretty easy to change (rebuild) the wheel cylinder.
Toughest part of changing it is getting the old fitting off
(you need the correct wrenches). Then naturally you have to
bleed the brakes. Rebuilding would be even easier, though you'd
have to get ahold of a hone.

And once more, I'm absolutely convinced that you have to change
the pads. Once they're contaminated there just ain't no
amount of cleaning and sanding that will save them permanently.

Take care.

Ken

 

Thanks, Ken. You know, your explanation makes a lot of sense. So, if that's
the case, I will need to have my brake cylinders rebuilt or replaced and also
replace the shoes. The first time it happened, we were on vacation, it was
early in the morning and it was so loud it scared the heck out of me. It
isn't quite as loud now.

I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

Don

 

You got to be really careful when changing calipers or wheel cylinders on
a car with ABS. If you allow too much air into the brake lines, and the air
gets up into the ABS controller valves, you can NOT bleed them yourself, it
must
be done with a scan tool. (and not a $199 cheapie, either)

I would try having an assistant sitting in the car, loosen the brake line
just a bit,
then get all the bolts and such out, then quickly undo the brake line and
then
slap the new cylinder in, then quickly tighten the line and then have the
assistant
start pressing the petal and get the bleed cycle going. And make sure the
master cylinder is full, if it sucks air, your screwed.

I've never bothered rebuilding wheel cylinders, the cost of new ones is
cheap
enough to just go new.

Ted

 

We bought our 96 T&C new and had a bunch of problems with it in the first
few years. Reading your post caused me to recall that we also had this
problem with ours.

If I remember properly, it was some sort of design problem that merited
either a recall or a TSB. Chrysler fixed ours under warranty. I suggest you
do a little research on line and, if you can find a reputable one, discuss
it with your friendly Chrysler dealer.

Good luck.

Ken

 

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There were a few TSB's out on this problem, but most of them didn't occur
years later, they were like that from the factory and springs had to be
added. So this vehicle would not have just started doing it. That's why I
recommended to not just put shoes on it, have someone that is familiar with
this vehicle take look at it.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

Ted, bleeding air or even replacing the calipers or wheel cylinders aren't a
problem. The problem occurs when the hydraulic (ABS) lines or hydraulic
assembly has been opened, that's when it requires the use of the DRB brake
bleed function to be used.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

How do you replace the wheel cylinder or caliper without opening
the hydraulic line?

Ted

 

Ken,
I checked the National Highway Safety web site for recalls for this problem
and there were none. Our local Chrysler dealer is not too reputable and I'd
be hard pressed to take any vehicle there for service. There is one 50 miles
away that I trust. I guess I'll make an appointment there.
Thanks for your help.
Don

 

--
Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

The base brake system must be bled anytime air is permitted to enter the
hydraulic system, due to disconnection of brake lines, hoses or components.
The ABS system, particularly the HCU, should only be bled when the HCU is
replaced or removed from the vehicle, or if there is reason to believe the
HCU has ingested air. Under most circumstances that would require brake
bleeding, only the base brake system needs to be bled.

The ABS portion of the brake system MUST be bled separately. This bleeding
procedure requires the use of the DRB.

 

there was a tsb for this issue and it involved replacing the wheel cylinders and
backing plates

 

Don,

Is this what you are experiencing? If so, it's the same disease as ours
that Chrysler fixed:

Make: CHRYSLER
Model: TOWN AND COUNTRY
Year: 1996
Type: MULTIPURPOSE PASSENGER VEHICLE
Service Bulletin Number: 051695
NHTSA Item Number: 46507
Summary Description:
BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES BUILT PRIOR TO DEC. 5, 1995 (MDH 1205XX). A
MOANING NOISE FROM THE REAR BRAKES DURING LIGHT BRAKE PEDAL EFFORT STOPS OR
REAR BRAKE SHOES REQUIRE REPLACMENT. BULLETIN INVOLVES THE REPLACEMENT OF
THE REAR BRAKE SHOES, BRAKE DRUMS AND THE INSTALLATION OF ADDITIONAL BRAKE
SHOE SPRINGS.