Neon motor oil choice

I was just wondering about the best choice in motor oil for this hard pushed
2l.
I have just over 100,000km on my 2001 single cam Neon. I run it resonably
hard, in verious temps. from -30'C to 35'C.
I have been running Castral Syntec 5w30 in the car since I bought it. I was
goingto get the oil changed today at Cosco here in Toronto. ( price is
cheaper then I could change it for). The only issue is that they only have
5W50 Syntec oil for synthetic oil.
My question is, will this make an impact on the engine of my car?

Mike
mlawrenc(at)rcc.on.ca

 

Yes; it is not a recommended viscosity for that motor. Use 5W-30 or as an
alternative in the summer, 10W-30.

Richard.

 

Michael,

Motor oil is a commodity product. Buy the grade recommended in your owners
manual. House brands are usually cheapest. Marketers have succeeded in
making consumers believe there is a difference between brand A and brand B.
The reality is they have to be very similar to meet specs.

 

Don't believe a word of this. Independent tests of motor oils (one of
the most comprehensive was performed by MCN - Motorcycle Consumer News -
magazine on a variety of oils designed for cars and for motorcycles.
The levels of various additives and the performance of the oils varied
over a surprisingly wide ranged. In general, the higher priced oils
outperformed the lower priced oils and synthetics outperformed
conventional oils by a significan margin.


Matt

 

Maybe I didn't make the question clear enough, I have always ran Castral
Syntec 5w30.
Now at Cosco, I can get the oil changed with Castral Syntec 5w50 for $42CND.
That is about $20 cheaper then I can get it changed else where with the
grade I normally use.
They only have 5w50 at Cosco in the Syntec oil.
The question was, will running 5w50 cause me troubles down the road?
I know 5w30 is alright, as I have been running it in my cars since I was old
enough to drive.(I know, Syntec synthetic oil has not been around all that
long)

Mike
mlawrenc(at)rcc.on.ca

 

I'm not familiar with the Castrol synthetic oil as I use Mobil 1. 5W50
seems like a pretty wide range, but with synthetic this is no doubt
possible. I can't imagine it causing any problems.


Matt

 

Use it. When cold it still behaves like a 5, so you've got the cold
end covered, and I've never had any use for a 30 weight for high
temperature use in a heavilly loaded 4. The 50 weight wil;l provide
better hot lubrication, and your 100,000KM Neon engine will have
adequate clearances to handle it.

I always ran 10W40 for the winter and 20W50 for the summer in my 4 cyl
engines (and my 6 and 8 cyl engines)

 

Remenber, he's using Syntec. And using 10w30 instead of 5W30 in the
summer makes no appreciable difference at all.

 

Use it. When cold it still behaves like a 5, so you've got the cold

And just what is your qualification to provide such an answer? Somehow you
now know better than the motor guys at Chrysler.

Richard.

 

My advice would be to go to your friendly neighborhood Chrysler dealer and
ask them. Tell them that you do your own maintence and you were wondering
about some alternative motor oil weights available. They may tell you that
5w50 is fine. It certainly covers the range that 5w30 does.

I don't know the recent history of motor oil but maybe 5w50 was not a viable
option when your car was manufactured. Just because the Owners Manual says
one thing doesn't mean that "newer technology" is excluded.

 

Correction - the 5w50 weight oil does NOT cover the same range as 5w30. I
stated it backwards. The first number is the cold flow viscosity and the
second number is the oils weight. In other words 0w30, 5w30, and 10w30 are
all 30 weight oils but with different cold temperature flow properties.
Once the oil warms up they will all flow the same. My bad.

Still - couldn't hurt to check with the dealer anyway.

 

The issue here isn't coverage of the viscosity range, but does the
Syntec 5W50 use any additives to achieve this wide range that may end up
being harmful. That is the problem that the 10W40 oils had. Since
we're talking about a synthetic here, I suspect that additives aren't a
problem since synthetics "naturally" have a pretty broad viscosity
range. However, it does pay to be cautious as 5W50 is a very wide range
to span.


Matt

 

I am a licenced auto mechanic, and was service manager for a fair
sized Toyota dealer for 10 years. Also taught both high school and
trade level (college) auto mechanics.

I have only gotten rid of ONE car with less than 150,000 miles on it,
out of some 35 I have owned - and have never had an engine failure on
any of my vehicles that have been run this way. Just a valve guide
failure on a 3.0 MitsoShitty - and the guides were crap on those
engines, as anyone who knows mid-80's Chryslers will attest.

As service manager, never had a customer's engine fail using this oil
recommendation, and have rebuilt many using the factory recommended
oils.

As for Chryslers, I've owned many of them - including a 1985 Mitsu
2.6, which I bought blown (spun bearing) and rebuilt. I drove it for 5
years till the body fell off 10 years ago, when I sold the engine.
Told the new owner what oil to use, and it was still on the road as
recently as 3 months ago. Has to have at least 250,000 miles on it by
now. ANd the timing chains were still quiet.

 

The "alleged" problem with 10W40 oils is, to a large extent, a "red
herring". Yes, 10W40 oils used more "long chain hydrocarbons" or
"polymers" to enhance the viscosity range - and yes, these long chains
will shear in use, reducing the viscosity of the oil - eventually.
However, when the oil is changed at recommended intervals (say 7500 km
under ideal conditions, or 5000 km under "adverse" conditions, the
deterioration of the poymers, and therefore the oil viscosity, is so
small as to be totally irrelevent.
The "recommended" 5-w-30 oil has virtually the same viscosity spread -
as does 20-w-50. Only a 10-w-30 has a narrower viscosity range, in
normal multi-grade oils.

As for the 10w40 problem - it was also significantly affected by fuel
dilution - vehicles with chokes - that is carbureted engines - run for
short distances in cold weather, and poorly tuned engines were much
more likely to suffer problems than today's fuel injected engines, or
those run long distances or in warm climates.

If you ran a carbureted engine for short trips in cold weather (which
contitutes adverse conditions - requiring reduced oil change
intervals) and used the ideal conditions change intervals, you MAY
have experienced the deterioration you speak of.

 

Well... I think that I am going to stick with the 5w30 syntec oil for
my Neon. I have a friend of mine that has well over a million miles on
his 440 with the original pistons and rings. His father started
running Slick50 in the engine when he first purchased the engine in
the original truck, and my friend still runs Slick50 in the engine.
(two trucks later).
I know that a big V8 is a bit different then my small 4 cylinder, but
I have a number of friends, with various engine types that swear by
running the same oil type through out the life of the engine.

Mike
mlawrenc(at)rcc.on.ca

BTW, I will be the prowd owner of this engine as soon as I find a car
with a good rear end. This engine and transmission likes to eat rear
ends and tires.

 

It has been many years since this issue first came to light and I don't
claim to remember all of the details, but I'm pretty sure that visosity
degradation wasn't the issue. If it was, it wouldn't make much sense to
have the recommendation to be to use lighter weight oils instead of
10W40. I believe the recommendation was due to some other problem
caused by some of the additives used to attain this wide viscosity range.


Matt

 

Right you are Matt. The viscosity index improvers needed to convert a
conventional oil into a wide viscosity oil caused varnish to form resulting
in cracked rings. Viscosity index improvers also lose their effectiveness in
use causing a measurable viscosity change. The first reason is why GM, Ford
and Chrysler advised not to use 10W-40 conventional oil in their motors. The
latter reason is why VW was very very slow to recommend anything but single
weight oils.

I have experience with this subject since I worked a short time at Mobil's
research lab and have a company that holds patents on fluid film bearings.
There is so much bull shit out there it is best to stick with the
recommendations of the guys who built your motor. (I would not think that
drastic viscosity change and varnish formation is an issue with a good
synthetic, especially if, like the current Mobil formulations, both the base
and viscosity index improver are synthetic). The heavy oil will adversely
impact fuel use. Very high speed use in very hot weather, with a heavy load
suggests that something other than a 5W-20 would be indicated. Very very
cold weather would indicate that something other than 10W-40 would be
indicated. Other than that don't go nuts over this; just stick to a major
brand of the recommended grade and viscosity and change it once in a while.

Richard.

 

Blasphemer!! Kill the unbeliever!!

UNCLEAN UNCLEAN!!