Neon AC compressor cycling

Actually, you did. it's two paragraphs up, check for yourself.

Awww, poor Matt, someone is forcing him to participate.
Must suck not being in control of yourself.

 

BTW, when I said "What you'll find is that, if the battery measures
exactly 12.000000000 volts...", that would have to be measured using
God's multimeter that is perfect and has no leakage on the input
terminals (i.e., the input resistance of his meter is truly infinite).

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

I'm never absolutely certain about anything[/QUOTE]

Of course I dispute that. Isn't my fault that you don't
understand the reasoning that Chrysler makes the recommendation
for minivans.

Yes, there is a reason.
If you want to know the reason, go out and obtain the knowledge.
Obviously, it would be pointless for me to explain it to you, and
given what I've seen so far, odds are you'll never figure it out
for yourself.

 

"Ignant?"

Did the gaggle help you with that?
(I think they did)

 

Yes "ignant" a term used so that those that do not understand more complex
words like ignorant will get the picture.
Yes not only do I understand how the defrost/demist cycle of an A/C system
works and the different types of voltage dividers out there, but I really
can spell.

 

So, you're saying I'm wrong?[/QUOTE]
What else in new??

 

Ignant - black vernacular for ignorant.
Usually implies dummer than a rock.
In common use in Rap music etc.

 

Bill disagrees with you.
So do I, but even Bill missed what I was getting at.
(so much for the rocket scientist)<shrug>

Gee Clara, for someone who claims to have been a mechanic for as
long as you have, I'd have expected that you could at least get
this one right.

Here's some key words, let's see if you can figure it out;
"battery" (you -do- know what a battery is don't you guys?)
"connecting a volt meter to"

 

Yes "ignant" a term used so that those that do not understand more complex
words like ignorant will get the picture.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't surprise me that this is what you're into:

http://www.pi911.org/ignant-and-shit-lyrics/ignant-and-shit-lyrics
..html

Your diet needs some help poop eater...

Any other tidbits of wisdom scat boy?

 

I didn't know you spoke ebonics Clara.

Heh-heh... apparently it implies a whole lot more than that...

Or, what you had for dinner.

Yo foo, waz in dat poo?

 

The following statement of yours (pasted from above) is what I was
responding to, and apparently you agree that it is since it is what you
left remaining of your post too: "...the mere act of connecting a volt
meter to a battery installed in a car constitutes a voltage dividing
circuit. While some voltage may well be divided off to the meter, that
is hardly what the original design intent was for the circuit as it was
built."

I said that I agreed with that and explained why you were right (that
the voltmeter across the battery does in fact constitute a voltage
divider circuit, though not one of much practical purpose). I will add
that while the design intent of the voltmeter across the battery is not
intended to form a voltage divider (I guess that was the coded main
challenge that you thought you were apparently throwing out), it is the
unavoidable result. **BUT** putting the ballast resistor in series with
the coil primary is precisely intended to reduce the voltage by forming
a voltage divider - the original designer of that concept in automotive
engineering is likely dead by now, but I guarantee you that he would
tell you that it is indeed a voltage divider by any reasonable criteria
(key word: "reasonable" - which leaves you out of the discussion). So
if that was your veiled point, then you were wrong on that aspect of the
voltage metter-across-the-battery scenario - maybe I didn't point out
that fallacy (i.e., your apparent false assumption that the ballast
resistor was not intended to form a voltage divider with the coil)
because I was bending over backwards to agree with you on something and
not always tell you that you are wrong in this discussion which you have
been with almost every statement.

You know, as discovered in the past here on other subjects, you are a
most dishonest (or mentally inept - sometimes it is hard to tell the
difference) person incapable of having an honest discussion. So even
when I agree with you, you can't get beyond insults and continute to
play a game of mental masturbation.

I've done the best I can to explain your stubborn technical
misconceptions while overlooking the insults and purposeful stupidity.
I'm done with this. And they all said "Yaayyyyyy!"

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

I never said that the volt meter was connected across the battery.

Interesting phrase, let's remember it and save it for later.

No Bill, it doesn't matter for the coils sake whether the input
voltage is 12 volts or 9 volts. See, this is where I take issue
with the terminology you and the rest of the gaggle insist on
using. To quote you "it is an unavoidable result," [it] being
the reduced voltage. What else could a ballast resistor
connected in series with the ignition coil reduce?

Now, back to the voltmeter/battery thing.

I was curious as to who would choose to disagree with what I
posted (well) just because they couldn't help themselves
(emotions and prejudice being what they are).
Emotion and prejudice kept you and a few others from reading
clearly (comprehending) some very simple words. (no surprise)
I stated very clearly that the voltmeter would be connected TO
the battery, I left it for you guys to imagine how many different
ways a voltmeter could be connected TO a BATTERY.
(imagination seems a bit limited here)

None of you got it, and it's one of the oldest test procedures
that has ever been applied to using a voltmeter to test a BATTERY.

Either way, my little experiment worked flawlessly, Clare is
still a doofus and the rest of you are more interested in
pounding your chests and proving how smart you think you are.
This all is nothing more than data collection so that someday
hopefully I can postulate a theory as to why a bunch of Dilberts
are hanging out here masquerading as auto mechanics.

 

There is only one way to connect a voltmeter to a battery.
There are two ways to connect a voltmeter to a circuit - the right way
and the wrong way.
The only way to connect a voltmeter to a battery is ACROSS the
battery, as there is no other possible connection to a battery with
nothing else connected to it.

In a circuit, there is only one CORRECT way to connect a voltmeter,
and that is ACROSS the load or ACROSS the source. On a simple circuit
that is one and the same.
On a parallel circuit, placing the voltmeter across either the source
(battery) or ANY load in the circuit gives you EXACTLY the same
result.

Throwing in bad connections or resistance in wiring changes the
circuit from a simple circuit to a complex (series/parallel) circuit -
so don't even bother bringing that up.

In a series or complex circuit, placing the voltmeter across any
parallel branch will give the same result, and across any set of
series connected loads will give you the results of a simple voltage
divider.

The WRONG way to connect a voltmeter to a circuit is in series.
Doing this, you are using the voltmeter as a quasi ameter. All it will
tell you is if the resistance of the circuit in question is higher or
lower than the impedence (or resistance) of the meter.

It will read either full source voltage, or less than source voltage.
The only legitimate use of this connection is to check for trace
current leakage (ie. current too low to measure with an available DC
Ameter) or to tetermine if a circuit is open (totally open circuit+ no
reading on the voltmeter).

Well, we know of ONE for sure. Last name of Nelson.
AKA Dilbert Doofus.

(by the way, Dilbert Doofus, who taught you your trade? Sure glad it
wasn't me, because I would have had to fail you in your basic Grade 9
auto mechanics course. You would never have made it to grade 10, much
less graduated from high school.

If someone else had pushed you through high school, you would have
been failed by me in trade school - and would never have passed your C
of Q exam.

Yes, I have taught both.

 

I see. More mental masturbation on your part.

How about 6 volts? How about 3 volts? How about 1 volt?

Sorry - but, for a given coil, the energy that the ignition system can
deliver (to the spar) is directly related to the voltage switched across
the coil. At some point (as you drop the switched voltage applied to
the coil), a threshold is reached below which no spark occurs
(ionization potential across the spark plug gap is not reached), so
reliability of firing under worst-case conditions is effected.

Yes - and perform the function of a voltage divider. You're catching
on, even though you won't agree.

Even more mental masturbation on your part. Instead of stating clearly
what you mean, you speak in ambiguities. You are absolutely delusional.

I see - so instead of making clear what you meant, you inentionally
speak in ambiguities where the context of the discussion clearly means
something else than that more obscure meaning that you had. And for
that you are smarter than us. It just means that you are incapable of
honest dialoque while you masturbate.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Clare, you claimed to have been a mechanic for many years...

Connect the negative lead of the voltmeter to the negative post
of the battery. Remove the caps from the individual cells.
Place the positive meter lead in contact with the electrolyte.
Read voltage.

Speaking of grade 9 auto mechanics, how is it that you can't
fathom the simple concept of measuring the individual cell
voltage(s) of a battery?

You have a big head for someone who can't even understand the
basics.

Another reminder that you ARE a has been.
Why is that? Did all of your student walk out in disgust, were
they bored to tears or couldn't they stomach the thought of being
trained to become a parts changer?

 

Uh-huh... Inability to comprehend on your part equals mental
mastubation on my part.
Whatever you say Mr.Bill.

You stated; " putting the ballast resistor in series with
the coil primary is precisely intended to reduce the voltage."

Arguing the other way serves what purpose?

I can see why you are frustrated, you can't keep a cogent thought
in your head.

Why would it "function" as a voltage divider when the intent and
purpose of the ballast resistor is to limit current?

Thank you!

Funny that you NOW claim context as your excuse. You care not
when it serves your purpose that even though a voltage dividing
circuit is not used contextually as a voltage dividing circuit
but for the purpose of limiting current.

Please, keep your fantasies to yourself.

 

Well, what you are doing is STILL measuring across the battery -
although only part of it. Each battery is a series circuit.
However, as Bill has stated so clearly, you are a dishonest character,
and are changing the question and the rules in mid-stroke.

Second - MOST batteries today do NOT have removeable caps.
Thirdly, the ONLY definitive test for batteries today is a
transconductance tester, such as a Midtronics.

It will NEVER steer you wrong and can test a battery with as little as
roughly 10% charge ACCURATELY and RELIABLY.

The voltmeter test is neither accurate nor reliable, although it is
better than nothing, and properly used can sometimes determine where
an open circuit or short exists in a battery. It can also very often
show a battery to be in excellent condition when it is incabable of
lighting an 1157 bulb.

Now, If you connect a LOAD to the battery, and THEn do the test, you
MAY get more meaningful results - but then again, that was NOT the
situation you described (or didn't describe.

Admit it young feller - you are out of your depth, and as Bill has
alluded, you'd swim better with both hands.

 

Neil, my boy.
Stop and think for a short second.
HOW does a ballast resistor limit current?
What mechanism is being employed?
What rules of Physics are in action?

Think of Ohm's Law.
current in a circuit is inversely proportionate to resistance when
applied voltage remains constant; current is inversely proportionate
to voltage when resistance remains contant.

So, without changiing the resistance of the coil, the only way to
limit current is to reduce voltage.

Think a little farther.
Why is a ballast resistor used in a Kettering ignition system???
Why not simply wind the coil with 3.25 ohms primary resistance so the
coil self regulates it's current??
There is one VERY simple answer, and it has EVERYTHING to do with
voltage, and very little to do with current.
The ballast resistor was added to the circuit in 12 volt automobiles
to improve cold weather starting.
It was not required in 6 volt vehicles because the voltage drop when
cranking a six volt vehicle was proportionally less due to the heavier
conductors employed to handle the higher currents inherent in a low
voltage cranking system. To get the same horsepower, or Killowatts of
starter power on 6 volts requires twice the current required with 12
volts.
With the 12 volt starting system, when cold the cranking voltage
routinely drops to below 10 volts. With 10 volts or less on a standard
3.25 ohm coil, the spark strength is reduced to the point it is
insufficient to light the mixture reliably.

Enter the ballast resistor.
The ballast resistor is taylored to the coil in such a way as to
provide the same running voltage as the battery supplies in worst case
scenario when cranking the cold engine. The resistor is bypassed
during cranking, so the coil sees "full design voltage" when cranking,
and is put into the circuit when the starter is released, so the coil
again sees ONLY "full design voltage" when running.

This is, of necessity, a simplified explanation, because you would get
totally lost if I introduced the concept of positive and negative
resistance co-efficients to the mix.

Suffice it to say, it is VOLTAGE that is the primary concern when
specifying a ballast resistor in an ignition primary.


No emotions or pejudice involved here, Neil.
PreDudice means Pre Judging.
No Pre Judging is required here. You have adequately enough
demonstrated you lack of both understanding of the subject, common
sense, and honesty for us to judge you fairly on the evidence.





Snipped a bunch of DRIVEL

 

No Clare, that is not measuring across the battery.

Do you know the difference between a cell and a battery?
Guess not.
Some instructor you must have made.

Nope, I clearly laid out the conditions to which you claimed I
was wrong about.
The whole thing proved that you can't make up your mind which
raises serious doubt about -your- ability to apply reason and
logic.

Hogwash.
Exide batteries have removable caps, Interstate batteries have
removable caps. About the only batteries out there that don't
have removable caps are Delco/Delphi "Freedom" type batteries and
Optima batteries.

Red Herring, and besides, you don't even own a Midtronics tester.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you totally
blew it, hell I even posed the scenario to include something that
would have been a common industry standard test method waaaaaaay
back when you claimed to have started your (supposed) career.

You used a Midtronics conductance battery tester back in the 60s
and 70s did ya? Aren't those decades the premise for all the
"I've got 40 years of experience" chest thumping that you did a
few posts back?
Secondly, how do you suppose battery re-manufacturers identify
individual dead cells prior to their remanufacturing process?

More weasel words.

Well, you guys are so smart, I shouldn't have had to spell it out
totally for you. Fact is, all I said was "connect a voltmeter to
a battery." Your eagerness to jump to conclusions is what
tripped you up.

"Young feller" Gee Clare, that sounds like it comes from someone
who would have intimate familiarity with the type of battery
testers used 30-40 years ago, you know, the big clunky hand held
voltmeter with a ground lead and the test probe sticking out the
bottom.
Congratulations, you now know what that mysterious thing-a-ma-
bob was used for.

 

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Wrong!