Neon AC compressor cycling

Please inform the climate control engineers at several automakers of
your beliefs/assertions. The obviously know less than you do.

Dan

 

I think it was Gordon Lightfoot's fault.

 

Indeed.

 

That's because Clare is either lying or she's such a shitty tech that she
can't even properly discern carburetor icing from other operational
difficulties.

Both of the vehicles she mentions -- for the Canadian market only in '63,
but for the US *and* Canada in '69 -- were equipped with a very effective
carburetor anti-ice system. It worked almost exactly like the heat-tube
style automatic chokes used by automakers other than Chrysler: A pipe
carried air from the clean side of the air filter through a sleeve passing
through one of the exhaust manifold runners (Number two runner, in fact).
The asbestos-insulated pipe exited at the top of runner 2 and ran from
there to a 3/16" IV-flare fitting in the throttle body. The internal
channels on the other side of this fitting were angled such that a steady
stream of heated air was distributed across the throttle plate and
immediate vicinity. Vehicles equipped with this anti-ice system basically
*never* iced, though they were very prone to percolation in the summer.

My Canadian-market '65 Valiant w/225 had this system. If in summer I
forgot to bypass the heat sleeve and run directly from the air cleaner
fitting to the throttle body fitting, the carb would reliably percolate
upon shutdown or extended hot idle. If in winter I forgot to put it back,
and the temperature was around 38 to 48 F, the carb would reliably ice
about 8 or 9 minutes after initial startup from cold. Colder or warmer
ambient and it wouldn't happen. This was at 5500 ft elevation.

DS

 

Because the a/c SYSTEMS ON LATER VINTAGE VEHICLES ARE "automatic"[/QUOTE]

Gee, the ones in my Intrepid and Dakota aren't Automatic although
it (automatic) was an option in the Intrepid.

The fact that there were units available that hung under the dash
hardly supports you case.

You should get it fixed.

Find someone to fix that one also.

That's a very scientific explanation Clare.
maybe a little dumb luck will come your way and you'll be able to
spell occasional correctly on an occasion.

Careful, too much science might be bad for you.

"Might not?" So, actually, you're not sure of a damn thing, you
just post what your emotions tell you without any regard for
actual fact.

I didn't mention that anyone had given birth to an automobile
either, but here you are adding -that- into the discussion.

Then it must be radio controlled or control line...

 

Seems to me that you just choose to use words without any thought
towards their context.

Yes, I know that...
On the other hand, when was the last time you bought tune up
parts and one certain component was labeled capacitor?
re: what I wrote above about context.

Seems pretty simple to me, all you're interested in is to
generate spin Bill.

 

Gee, now -that- explains a lot.

 

And you're spending the time and energy on [it] for what purpose
again?

If I apply what you're saying here Bill, the mere act of
connecting a volt meter to a battery installed in a car
constitutes a voltage dividing circuit. While some voltage may
well be divided off to the meter, that is hardly what the
original design intent was for the circuit as it was built.

 

No, the temperature drops from 70-72 and the moisture condenses on the
glass. Then it freezes. When that happens you get ice.

Othertimes, the moisture sublimates onto the glass. That's what they
call it when vapour goes directly to solid without becoming liquid
first. The result is rime ice - that white opaque stuff they call
frost.

Of course. Exactly what EVERYONE has been telling you. Internal
humidity - not external. Frost on the OUTSIDE of the glass is a
totally different issue.

ATC of course.

 

What an ass.

 

Anyone else get the idea this Neil Nelson is a prizewinning
asshole????

 

So you are admitting you know squat?? You are a young wet behid the
ears know-it-all punk with little or no experience to back you up. I
was a mechanic already when you were still in diapers.

Most certainly not, as the outside of the old pict carb was a ball of
rime ice the size of a tennis ball

 

I know carb icing - and vapour lock, intimately.

By the way, Clare is NOT a SHE - so if you are giving me a hard time
figuring I'm an "uppity female" you can forget it.
I've been a licenced auto mechanic in Ontario since before my 19th
birthday - and that was well over 40 years ago.

None of these ()my '69 225 or my '63 170) Slant Six engines had that
setup that I can remember.

The carb ice solution was a peice of roughly 2" scat tubing from a
sheet metal stove fastened to the manifold to a thermostatically
controlled, vacuum operated, air control flapper on the intake
canister air horn. This did not exist on the 1963 170, and did not
always stay on the later engines. The scat was aluminized cardboard,
and the sheet metal corroded away around the manifold mounting bolts.

The engine also had a "hot spot" on the intake at the base of the carb
controlled by a very rudimentary "heat riser" valve, that tended to
either stick or burn out the thermostatic spring that actuated it by
twisting on the pivot shaft. This helped prevent ice when it was in
operational condition, but the primary purpose was to heat the
manifold for better mixture atomization. Running "cold manifolded"
improved performance by keeping the air density higer.

All these "modifications" made to the slant six that contributed to
reducing carb ice were EXTREMELY important on the early models with
the Holley 1920 series carbs (removeable float bowl) as those carbs
were VERY efficient ice-makers. The Carter BB series carbs that were
also used were not as touchy about ice. Both the '63 Valiant and the
'69 Dart I owned had the Holley carb.

I did not experience the perculation problems on my engines, but I
generally ran hightest as both were slighly "warmed over". Raised
compression ratios, altered camming etc made them like higher octain
fuel - and I was normally running at lower altitude (around 1040-1050
feet), where vapour pressure was not as critical as it would be at
5000 feet.

 

Gee, the ones in my Intrepid and Dakota aren't Automatic although
it (automatic) was an option in the Intrepid.[/QUOTE]

I'm not talking automatic temp control, although the New Yorker has
that option. I'm talking the air control and a/c switches being
interconnected.

Not talking just under-dash systems. Talking factory installed in-dash
systems too.

No need to get 'em fixed, as they are operating as designed.

And you ALWAYS spell EVERYTHING correctly???
Nit picking little squirt.

 

A voltmeter is installed in PARALLEL and voltage is equal in all
branches of a parallel circuit, so no voltage divider exists.

On the other hand, when you install an AMMETER in the circuit, which
IS a series circuit, there IS a voltage divider, as the ammeter reads
the voltage drop accross the "shunt" of the ammeter, which, in series
with the load, forms a "voltage divider"

The voltage drop accross the calibrated resistor indicates the current
flow via Ohm's Law.

 

I wasn't aware what the temperature and never claimed to know that.
What's your point?

Your experience with cold climates is pretty limited as well as you will
see from later temperature statistics I posted for some pretty cold
places. They aren't nearly as cold for nearly as long as you stated.

And they aren't continuously cold for months on end.

I've never seen a therapist. It doesn't seem to have worked for you so
I think I'll pass.

It will be cooler than sitting idle, but it will be above ambient as the
hot air from the radiator doesn't just magically disappear from the
engine compartment.

Dry is a relative not an absolute descriptor. Drier is better when
trying to remove fog from a windshield.

Yep, I lived in Erie, PA for two years.

Well, we had -25 twice last winter with wind to boot. I don't think we
hit -100 wind chill, but -60 is still pretty chilly.


Matt

 

A touch of breeze and the fog is no longer just over the water.


Matt

 

Yes, that is obvious. Glad you were finally able to pick up on an
obvious point. It should be also equally obvious to you that not
running the compressor for two weeks or longer in the off season is
equivalent to "storing" the car for two weeks or longer while on
vacation. Is this really that hard of a concept for you to grasp?

Still dodging the question. What does the altitude at which a Neon is
driven have to do with understanding the concept of dew point?


Matt

 

But you have to admit that they are VERY entertaining!


Matt

 

It isn't just the dew point, it is the relative humidity that determines
the rate of evaporation. Running the AC will further lower the dew
point (and lower the RH) which will increase the rate of evaporation at
a given temperature. Fortunately, increasing the temperature also
lowers the RH and increases the rate of evaporation. That is very nice
as it allows the heater to pick up where the AC leaves off as it gets
colder.

Yep, nobody argued anything contrary as best I recall from this long,
and becoming monotonous, thread.

Depends on what you consider narrow. Various sources list the range as
being from 20 F up to 70-90 F OAT. I don't consider a 50-70 degree span
to be all that narrow.

The cooling isn't just due to the Bernoulli effect. The vaporization of
the fuel is typically a much larger factor. This can cause a
temperature drop of 40F or more in the carburetor.


Matt