Neon AC compressor cycling

Nobody is arguing that A/C ALWAYS runs when the vehicle has the
Defroster turned on. What has been stated - and I have stated it, is
that there ARE conditions, even in Minnesota or Wisconsin (or
Manitoba) where the A/C WILL run during the winter, and these
conditions occur often enough to keep the refrigeration oil circulated
through the compressor enough to keep the seals supple enough that
they do not leak.

What you and a few other die-hard arguers are saying is it does NOT
happen, and morover CANNOT happen. That walks squarely in the face of
reality.
The fact Matt inferred it was necessary to MANUALLY run the A/C on
today's cars in the winter puts him (very slightly" in the wrong.
The fact a bunch of Yahoos jumped on him , and everyone who agrred
with him in ANY way, speaks volumes about the characters populating
this list.
A bunch of argumentative, nit picking, snot nosed brats.

 

Gee Matt, if I douse someone with gasoline and start them on
fire, is there any point in sitting them down in front of a
roaring fire in the fireplace so that they can warm up?

Wake up, smell the coffee.
If the dew point of the ambient air is low, there is little to be
gained by running the air conditioner in an attempt to dehumidify
it more. I don't care about how many sweaty hockey players are
changing their jock straps in your back seat.

Why do they call winter the cold and flu season?
Because the air is so much dryer causing mucous membranes to dry
out and crack which allows certain nasty bugs to invade where
they'd normally not be able to invade.

Why does/did carb icing only occur in a fairly narrow temperature
range?
Because below that temperature range, the ambient air can not
hold enough moisture to allow ice crystals to form in the
presence of a pressure drop (venturi), above that temperature,
even though the air can hold enough moisture, the ambient
temperature is high enough that there will not be sufficient
temperature drop when the pressure is dropped in the venturi.

 

So Matt, being 'fairly certain" as you state, exactly how many
air conditioning systems have you diagnosed and fixed in your
career?
Also, I'm curious as to exactly how many hours of formal training
you've had on the subject of automotive air conditioning.

I know, I know, you're going to claim non-sequitur or some such
since a very large part of this is stuff that was/should have
been covered in sixth grade science class.

 

If I'm a pig, please explain why it is that out of all of the
URLs that PC Medic posted describing and diagraming voltage
dividing circuits, not a single one diagramed a simple series
circuit, and the only one that -did- have a simple series circuit
showed it for the simple purpose of explaining voltage dropped
and how a voltage drop is applied to a voltage dividing circuit.

Then there's the dictionary URL PC Medic gave that specifically
contained the word "tap," could you please diagram for me a
Chrysler primary ignition circuit and point out specifically
where this voltage tap is that you and your gaggle claims exists?
And since we're tapping voltage, please point out where it is
that voltage is being tapped to.

 

Would you care to state "exactly" what the temperature range is where
carb icing is "possible". If you can you are a better man than most,
Gunga Din.
I personally know of carb ice occuring at roughly 85 degrees F in
Florida.(in an airplane) (with an automotive engine).- brought down a
good friend of mine in a flaming wreck - which he (thankfully)
survived.
I also have personal knowlege of carb icing at -5F, in a car (1969
Dodge Dart 225) and at +15F on a '63 Valiant 170, at roughly 1040 ft
ASL (ground level just outside Kitchener Ontario)
Personally also experienced carb icing at roughly 4200 ft ASL (ground
level) on a 1949 VW beetle in central Africa (Tonga Plateau, Zambia,
October 1973) They call October suicide month, because the
temperature can rise to 115F and stay there for days, with RH at the
100% point. Eventually, usually, it rains. On they day in question, on
the plateau, it was roughly 85 degrees. Under the hood of the VW it
was significantly warmer than that. Imagine, if you can, vapour lock
and carb ice on the same day.

 

Guess they need a better comic book. N.N. cann't even read the site
he's posting.
Good Grief.

 

Well, someone is mud wrestling with a pig....

You were absolutely certain about the OEMs recommending that you
run you AC in the winter, or were you?

 

Oh, now it's just one car.
Quite different from your earlier assertions, no?

Why is leaving the van sit for two weeks the same as not running
the AC in the winter?

Hell, I unplug my AC compressor clutch during winter, have been
for eight years on my Dakota and it still blows as cold as when
it was new without any service what-so-ever.

 

So what should happen when someone is absolutely certain before
they even check their owners manual, then -does- check their
owners manual and finds out (ta -da) that they're wrong on all
counts?

We could use Red Forman's favorite term....

As for arguing points you claim you never made, let's see...

You claimed that the OEM recommends running your AC in the winter
to keep things lubed.
Yup, I argued that to be the horse doody that you now know (with
but one exception) that it is.

You (or one of your gaggle) claimed that AC is needed in winter
to dehumidify the interior air.
Yup, I argued that at some temperature the AC isn't going to run
anyway because the system pressures would have dropped to low to
allow clutch engagement and by the way, it really isn't necessary
because usually at that temperature, the ambient (intake) air is
ALREADY quite dry to begin with.
Naturally, you thought you'd argue your way out of all that by
claiming that not all parts of the continent get that cold so
there, nyah-nyah-nyah, you're dead wrong Neil.

You guys crack me up.

Really, this is great comedy, where's the hat?

 

Hey genius, did you bother to check that Green Bay (and
Milwaukee) is in very close proximity to a very large body of
water and that that very large body of water acts as a heat sink
during the summer and that it -is- a known fact that both cities
benefit from moderated temperatures during the winter because of
that.

Here, let me make it real simple...
You picked a really BAD example.

On the other hand, if you pick the two correct days in 1995,
Green Bay had both the lowest temperature in the nation and the
highest temperature in the nation (ya know, that schtick they do
on the 10 o'clock weather).

So you see, it -can- be colder here in winter than parts of
Alaska and it -can- be hotter here than the desert southwest.

Ain't weather fun?

So what did sink the Edmund Fitzgerald?

 

Why, what's different?

My calendar doesn't go up to "once in a while," just how long is
that exactly?
Why is it then that the compressor in my dakota has not
experienced any sort of failure and still blows as cold as when
new in spite of the fact that every winter (oct-june) I
disconnect the plug going to the compressor clutch, but the
compressor on the Intrepid seized during the first winter after I
bought it used but hasn't in the subsequent winters now that I
unplug the damn thing?
Seems that I'm doing everything wrong but yet I'm experiencing
fewer failures that what is the norm based upon complaints in
this newsgroup.

Gee, I dunno... seems that I routinely test drive vehicles in the
winter, bring 'em in, rack em and have absolutely no problem
grabbing the exhaust or cat-con with bare hands shortly after
shut down.
So, you're claiming that the AC system is going to absorb heat
from the engine while the car is running down the road with wind
blowing in and thru the engine compartment, 'eh?

Last time I checked, August 21st does not happen in winter in
this hemisphere.
Thanks for playing, you've won an authentic Wicked Weasel bikini
(which I'm sure you'll look great in).

Probably an ultralite....

 

Because the a/c SYSTEMS ON LATER VINTAGE VEHICLES ARE "automatic"

Lots- controls to start with. AC and heat are integrated. Some of us
are old enough to remember when that was not the case.

Here in Ontario, with my New Yorker, at least once a week through the
coldest part of the winter.
With my Pontiac Transport at least as often

Even a blind pig finds an occaisional acorn - in other words? DUMB
LUCK.

Yup - blind luck.

Might not come on while blasting down the road at 60MPH, but how about
when you stop the car at a stop light for a few minutes, or driving
slowly in traffic?

OK, now you're changing the question and the rules. Nobody specified
WHEN the Neon had to become "airborn" and the auto road is open all
summer, most of the spring, and fall.

Nope.

 

The interior temperature of the car is 70-72 degrees sitting in
the sun and there is condensation on the glass?

Come on Clare, you can do better than this can't you?

All inside the closed vehicle of course, which is totally removed
from anything to do with outside humidity.

Generally, stupid people use the recirculate mode in winter, no
fresh air, no chance of removing interior moisture. That's

Sez you?
Does that New Yorker have ATC or manual HVAC?

 

6288 feet, it was during the winter in New Hampshire, August 21
to be exact. ;-)

 

Where it shows exactly what occurs with the coil/ballast.
Good greif -Charley Browne - the dumb buggers can't even read a
picture book.[/QUOTE]

Really?

Why is it that none of the schematics shown even remotely
resemble an ignition primary?

Here, 'splain it to me.


V- -------I
R2
I
I______??
I
I
R1
V+ -------I

R1 = the ballast resistor.
R2 = the ignition coil primary windings.
Crude rendition based upon all of the wonderful examples that
were so generously collected by the brain trust that I lovingly
refer to as "the gaggle."

Okay Clare, the item marked "??" is which component in the
ignition primary?

 

Actually, they have. pity you haven't been paying attention.

No shit Sherlock.

Do tell, when did AC system seals become of the type that they'd
soak up refrigeration oil?
How does a two piece carbon seal soak up refrigerant oil?

If all of these seals are soaking up refrigerant oil to stay
supple, why isn't there a big puddle of oil dripping off of them?

AC seals don't come packed in oil like Sardines, and I have yet
to see a best if used by date on any of the hundreds that I've
handled, they're not vacuum packed, so how do they keep them
supple while they're awaiting their new home sitting on the shelf
in the parts department?

Clare, you're posting ridiculous stuff now....

I mean holy shit, I make one comment on some ill founded myth and
instead of dispelling that one, you come along and add more to it.
Are any of you playing with a full deck?

Well, there are things that won't happen, and there are things
that don't need to happen. That summarizes exactly what I've
been saying in about as plain of english as one could want.

Hell, if it makes him feel good, then he should do it.
Seems kind of like that Monk character on TV though.

I guess that would include not believing that it's winter in New
Hampshire in August, 'eh?

 

That's nice information and all, but someone interjected aircraft
into this discussion so I'm afraid all of your above cites are
disqualified because they appear to be land based non flying
attempts.

No prize this time. :-(

 

I was speaking about automobiles on the ground.
We both know that altitude changes everything.

Can't help ya there, both vehicles pre-date my career.
Around here, back when most everything had carburetors, icing
would only occur when the temperatures were in the low to mid 40s
with the humidity exactly right. (don't recall what the RH was)

I'd bet that there was water contamination in the gasoline, or
whatever they claim to be gasoline in Africa.

I do remember there being a very well written article in Sport
Pilot back in the early 80s on carb icing and it pretty much
stated what I've experienced with automobiles.

 

The taps *are* the junction between coil primary and ballast ("top")
resistor. Just because you haven't physically brought out that junction
and call it a tap doesn't mean that that dropped voltage node doesn't
exist (sorry for the double negative - sometimes they are appropriate).
Fact is that that node exists and represents the reduced-voltage input
to the coil due to current induced voltage drop - once again, precisely
how a voltage divider works. You're beating a very dead horse here,
Neil.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Here, let's use PC Medic's definition;

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/v/v0142400.html

See the word "tap?"
See the word "available?"
See how they are used together?

Where is the "tap" in a ignition primary circuit?
Where is this available circuit tapped to?
Connected in series ain't "tapped."[/QUOTE]

See my other post (answer: the "tap" is the junction between the ballast
resistor and the coil). Tapped just means a junction is brought out to
register the voltage at the junction (voltage node), or can be applied
to the load (which in this case is also the coil). Just because you
can't bring a wire out for that purpose doesn't mean the junction isn't
there - it is there.

Uhh - a condensor (capacitor to Americans) is not shorted - it is open
(d.c.-wise).

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")