Minivan heaven

Well, the 96 Grand Voyager that I've posted about here over the years
met its demise last night due to a drunk driver that tried to do a
u-turn on a busy two-lane highway just as I was passing by. I probably
was going 45 MPH still at impact and swerved hard left, but couldn't
quit get past him. So, at 178,500 miles, the van will go to that great
graveyard in the sky.

I've always been a believer in seat belts and always use them. I've
been skeptical of air bags, but no more. I'm not a believer. My 8
year-old son was in the pax seat and the airbag likely saved him from
serious injury. He did get some minor airbag rash and got an abrasion
on his cornea from the bag, but nothing that won't heal in a week or so.
My only injuries were to my hands from the impact on the steering
wheel, and a slight bump on my right knee. Very minor given the impact.

The vehicle driven by the drunk was also a minivan, 97 Caravan, so the
vehicles were similar size and weight.

I was impressed at how well my GV held up. The pax side front took the
hit and the pax door jambed, but I was able to pull it open from the
outside. The pax compartment remained completely intact. We both got
out and walked away, my son with a bloody nose and puncture to his hand
from a toy arrow he was holding at impact.

I don't think my face even contacted the airbag as I have no abrasions
at all and my glasses weren't even broken. They were hanging on one ear
when we finally came to a stop. I always kept the seat all of the way
back and the belt cinched up tight so I believe the airbag didn't do
much for me, as the belt did its thing. However, my son likely was
helped by the airbag and, in any event, not hurt much by it. I used to
look for cars that didn't have airbags, but no more. I believe they are
a useful addition to a complete crash protection package, but I still
think that seat belts and a rigid pax compartment are THEE essential
elements. The minivan seems to have both.


Matt

 

I should have added that it goes to the graveyard with its original
elecronic four-speed automatic never having been touched other than oil
and filter changes.


Matt

 

Hi Matt...

Thank goodness your son is unharmed.

A question, if I may? Around here all the youngsters ride in the back
seat, even if they're the only passenger, to protect them from having
an airbag "punch" them in the face (instead of the chest).

May I ask the general physical size of your 8 year old, and if average
for his age how this didn't happen to him?

Thanks, and take care.

Ken

 

I didn't let him ride in the front until just recently. I forget the
exact laws here, but I think it is a combination of age and weight, and
I drive in two states frequently (PA and NY) and I'm not 100% sure if
they are even the same, however, he is legal in both states. This was
only his 3rd or 4th trip in the front ... figures, eh?

He's pretty good sized for his age. He's 90 lbs. and probably close to
5' tall. I haven't checked his height lately so this is a guesstimate.

The airbag clearly contacted his face, but no worse than most adults
from what the emergency room staff said. His injuries were exactly what
they expected to see. I thought a lot over the last day about if he'd
have been better off in the middle seat, but I really don't think so.
When he's back there he's always loosening up his seat belt, sitting
sideways, laying down, etc., and it is hard to keep an eye on him when
I'm driving, especially at night which it nearly was when the accident
occurred (5:15 PM in upstate NY is pretty dark this time of year).
Being in the front, I can keep track of him and I'd tightened his belt
down before we hit the road as he always leaves it way too loose.

I really don't think he would have faired much better in the back as
he'd have likely hit the front seat with his head and may well have had
neck injuries. The air bag injuries are very minor by comparison.

The ambulance crew treated him as though he had neck injuries. The neck
braced him, back boarded him and put him on oxygen. Scared my wife half
to death when she walked into the ER! I knew he was fine as I'd seen
him before he was all dressed up, but he did look pretty bad on the
table in the ER.

I'm trying!

Matt

 

Don't forget the tetnus shot for the puncture wound.

 

His last one was three years ago and the ER doc said anything with 5
years was fine. The doc couldn't believe it when he asked and my wife
pulled my son's immunization record from her pocketbook! She carries
all of the kid's records in her pocket book. It is scary in there ... I
won't go there!

We think we pieced together what the wound was from. He was playing
with a plastic toy bow and arrow right before the impact, but had laid
it in his lap, at least that is his last recollection. There is a red
welt on his stomach shaped exactly like the suction cup on the mangled
arrow and the puncture is a perfect circle on the back of his hand. We
also think we see a little skin and blood on the arrow. I'm guessing
the air bag pushed his hand into the nock end of the arrow which them
pushed into his abdomen. Fortunately, it was a flimsy arrow and buckled
in three places before causing serious damage.

Matt

 

I am pleased hear that there were no serious injuries.

It's nice to know that air bags that are 10 years old will deploy as
designed. I have two air bag equipped vehicles ranging from 13 - 15
years, and I wonder if the air bag systems would still work correctly
if needed, and not lose their *readiness* over time.

-Kirk Matheson

 

I read or saw on TV a blurb about this recently. They said that current
projections place the shelf life at 20 years miniumum up from the 10
years initially expected. They apparently hold up reasonably well. I
never planned to test mine, but they worked as advertised. They sure
are fast. I remember the moment before impact and then the next
recollection was heading towards the guard rail with the air bag in my
lap and a steering wheel that would no longer steer.


Matt

 

'Course I am glad you two got off lightly (what about the other driver??)
and, as regards air bags, I should like to welcome you to the belief system
that most of the rest of the world (outside NA) holds...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

 

Matt, you can't post that! Why, your ruining the Christmas of all the
anti-airbag people on this ng! ;-)

I've always maintained that no matter how good you are at buckling up,
you can never insure that everyone in your vehicle does so also.

Glad to hear you didn't ruin your Christmas!

Ted

 

Somebody had to be the scrooge this year! I wouldn't call me an
anti-airbag person in the past, but I certainly was pro-airbag either.
I'm much more positive on them now, although I do see their dangers.
I'd hate to hit one NOT having my seatbelt also on. That could get ugly.

True, but I think airbags without seatbelts wouldn't be nearly as
effective and might actually cause injury. Hard to say, but they are
designed as a system and should be used that way.

Thanks!

Matt

 

Not in the United States - as Daniel Stern has posted, in the EU airbags
are in fact designed as a supplement - but the Federal laws in the US
require them to be able to stop the forward motion of an unbelted adult in
a crash. Thus the bags in the US are much larger and deploy with more
force. Apparently the US regulators think the US drivers are more stupid.

Ted

 

Unfortunately, I think the US regulators are correct in their thinking
about US drivers (I hit an example last Wednesday - BAC of 0.16%).
However, I think they are incorrect in not considering airbags as a
system along with seat belts.

Matt

 

I would submit that with a decent seat belt system that is USED that airbags
are completely unnecessary. While such systems are mandatory for child
restraints, apparently the US general public is too clueless to figure out
that what's good for the child is even better for the adult. Thus we are
stuck with the lap/shoulder belt combo which is not adequate for many kinds
of collisions (side impact, for example)

Ted

 

What seat belts do you think we have outside the US, if not lab/shoulder
combos?

In smaller cars the middle rear belt might only be a lap belt.

Season's Greetings one and all!
DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

 

I don't disagree much, although crash tests I've seen show the dummies
hitting the steering wheel, even with seat belts. And if you had a five
point racing harness, that might keep you from hitting the wheel, but at
the expense of less give to soften the deceleration. Personally, I
think properly designed air bags are a great supplement to a good belt
system. Now, if we all wore helmets, then hitting the steering wheel
would be a non issue!

Matt

 

Ted have you noticed since AB's came out that they are now called
"supplemental" restraint not "passive" as they used to be? I believe they
are a system here too. If you look at the owners manual they caution you to
not rely on them. I wouldn't be suprised if the seatbelts are designed to
"give" a little more with ABs as there is now a gas bag to keep your face
off the wheel/dash etc.
Larry

 

I think that airbags should be designed such that if you are not wearing
seatbelts when the airbag triggers, it should remain inflated until it
smothers you to death. That would help improve the human genetic pool.

 

And I thought if we wore body armour it would be a non-issue... but anyway,
steering wheels collapse these days, don't they?

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

 

Yes, my vehicles all have SRS molded right into the steering wheel cover
and dash. However, I don't dispute that the government doesn't mandate
that air bags be designed as a system. I certainly would suspect though
that is the wish of the automakers.


Matt