Looking for a mid-size domestic car recommendation

BUT ! the European police can drive Manual.... Aside from their Auto
boxes a 5 series BMW or an E or S class Mercedes could hold up. (I'll
reserve comment on the Audi's)

 

| On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:25:29 -0400, "James C. Reeves"
|
| >
| >| >| Although they may look similar the 92 or even the 2000 models
| >| have little in common with the 2004. The GM and the CV have been
| >| upgraded several times over the years. There have been
| >| improvements to just about everything,
| >| the engine, tranny suspension as well as a new stiffer frame. Any
| >| one who believes they do not perform or handle well would be well
| >| advised not to try to outrun a cop chasing you in one of them
| >| today. As to durability,
| >| from what we see in our business, there is nothing
| >| within 20K that can touch them.
| >|
| >|
| >| mike hunt
| >|
| >
| >I agree...a couple people at work (one with a GM and one a CV) and both have
| >200K+ on the clock with hardly a problem. They're damn reliable vehicles,
it
| >seems. Could be one reason law enforcement use them so much.
| >
|
| How much oil smoke do they blow out the tailpipe? Seems I can't pass
| a Lincoln Town Car, GM or CV and NOT see a cloud of blue smoke behind
| it, except for the police version of the CV...

I've not noticed any smoke from them.

 

|
| "James C. Reeves" wrote in message
|
|
| >
| > Buick received some high marks on reliability recently as well. A little
| bland
| > on styling. And definitely gimmicked control systems, right down to the
| silly
| > vehicle speed-controlled radio volume control system.
| >
| >
|
| Jeeezzz, James.......You seem to think every modern convenience is silly or
| a gimmick. Do you have a running stream with large rocks in it near your
| house? I'm sure it comes in handy on laundry day.
|
| H
|
|

Because most (recently) are useless and of no added value...except to raise
production costs. Hardly a "modern convenience" to have the radio volume
adjust (especially when the radio doesn't know if you have the windows down or
not, so you have to still manually adjust it anyway). Truly a idiotic
"convenience" feature. Thankfully it can be user disabled.

Nope, no stream or rocks...just a Maytag Neptune front loader to do the
laundry.

 

|
|
| "James C. Reeves" wrote:
|
| > | Cars built in North America of primarily North American parts are
| > | considered "domestic" for legal purposes, regardless of whether the
| > | nameplate says "Dodge" or "Nissan" or whatever.
| > |
| >
| > The car may be "domestic", from a legal definition, however the company
that
| > produced it is not. A larger percentage of the profits, as a general rule,
| > leave the US on its way to the high wage salaries, R&D, design teams, etc.
of
| > the host country where the HQ is location as a result.
|
| Versus a high percentage lining the pockets of fat cats in
| Michigan?
|
| Ed

The money is still in the USA. These "fat cats" don't put it in their
mattress...they do something with it. And I'd rather USA fat cats have the $$$
and spend them here than foreign fat cats have it and spend it there.

 

|
|
| Geoff wrote:
| >
| > C. E. White wrote:
| >
| > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:02:35 -0400
| > > From: C. E. White <>
| > > Newsgroups: alt.autos.gm, rec.autos.makers.chrysler, alt.autos.ford
| > > Subject: Re: Looking for a mid-size domestic car recommendation
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > "James C. Reeves" wrote:
| > >
| > > > | Cars built in North America of primarily North American parts are
| > > > | considered "domestic" for legal purposes, regardless of whether the
| > > > | nameplate says "Dodge" or "Nissan" or whatever.
| > > > |
| > > >
| > > > The car may be "domestic", from a legal definition, however the company
that
| > > > produced it is not. A larger percentage of the profits, as a general
rule,
| > > > leave the US on its way to the high wage salaries, R&D, design teams,
etc. of
| > > > the host country where the HQ is location as a result.
| > >
| > > Versus a high percentage lining the pockets of fat cats in
| > > Michigan?
| > >
| > > Ed
| > >
| >
| > You got a problem with that?
|
| Yes. For instance:
|
| "Wagoner's total 2002 compensation package reached $14.7
| million in 2002, compared with $7.43 million in 2001, when
| the company failed to achieve financial targets, according
| to the company's proxy released Thursday."
|
| Do you really think the guy running GM is worth $14.7
| million dollars? I don't.
|
| Ed

I don't particularly think so. But that's for the stock holders and directors
to decide. It's irrelevant to the particular topic in this thread anyway.

 

| On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Geoff wrote:
|
| > what they make and what they do to get it is none of my damn business,
| > and I think it ought to be viewed as same by everyone else.
|
| Ah. Everyone ought to think just like you do. Understood.
|
| > Good Lord, 'class divide'? Horsepucky. The 'class divide' is being
| > manufactured by the American Left. It's a complete fabrication!
|
| Sure. So then there's no such thing as Americans who lack access to basic
| healthcare, for instance?
|

Those that I know (including some family members) that don't have health
insurance is because they don't want to pay for it. They can easily afford it
and they simply choose not to get it. "Access" is truly not the problem some
politicians claim. Everyone can buy health insurance here in the states if
they choose to...it is available.

 

ROFL...."stock holder's anonymous". That's a good one!

If GM stock can return profit to the stockholder of 8%-12% over 15-20 years,
most stockholders don't care what they pay the CEO.

 

Hi...

Yup. The thousands of homeless americans should just
run right out and buy it.

Ken

 

The Dynasty was NEVER built on the stretched K chassis. The stretched
K was the Dodge 600 and the LeBaron and New Yorker 4 cyl. The Dynasty
and the New Yorker 6 and Landau are significantly larger than the
"super K". We are talking 1899 to 1993, I believe.
They are marginally smaller than the Diplomat/Fury/New Yorker/Fifth
Ave of the early eighties (up to 1988) with rear wheel drive.

I have owned both a 1985 "super K" LeBaron T&C wagon and a 1988
Landau. TOTALLY different cars.

 

The irony of most arguments along these lines is that those who hurl
accusations of unrealistic utopianism are themselves advocates of
different utopias. This Geoff character, in pissing on "collectivists" and
"socialists", is implicitly advocating for an equally-unworkable
capitalist utopia.

 

See below.

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[......]

FROM DAS: I don't recollect any bombs falling on any car plant in the UK
since about 1944, and I am not sure any were hit even then. And even if
they were, the bombs certainly weren't from the USA... In fact the major car
plant in direct path of the bombers in east London was/is owned by one Ford,
Inc...

[.......]

From DAS: ...and I thought Britain finally paid off its WW2 debt to the US
a few years ago...

 

Another thought: in the mid-eighies I took a factory tour of what was then
(and probably still is) the main passenger car plant of Mercedes-Benz in
Sindelfingen, near Stuttgart, i.e. long before Merc was producing
significantly outside Germany. The issue of domestic-made came up and there
was some discussion about the merits thereof (fine German labour etc --
"Deutsche Wertarbeit"). Then it was pointed out that the vast majority of
assembly line workers were of Turkish origin...

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

 

If you have one of the early Neptunes, call Maytag and say the word "mildew"
and they will come out and make a bunch of improvements to it for free....
new circuit board, seals, etc.

 

And for very good reason- they saw what happened to FWDs they tried when
you whip them across a highway median or a curb, and didn't like it.
Neither did the maintenance shops.

I really like the new Dodge Magnum and the LX platform in general, but
if they do release a police-package version of it as rumored, the police
package is going to have to include steel suspension control-arms in
place of the aluminum that's currently on there, or it'll be the same
story all over. Yeah, the aluminum is nice for ride and handling because
of the lower unsprung weight, but its just not going to be strong enough
for highway patrol (ab)use.


<dubious "statistics" snipped>

 

Swap the two brands, and you are describing my experience.

I've never had a Chrysler product let me down and I've put 200k+ on
several of them. I've never had a GM that didn't need some huge repair,
a thousand little repairs, or was as easy to work on when it needed
repair. NEVER will I buy a GM without a lot of convincing. The
impression I get of the GM rentals I get when I travel (Impalas, Grand
Prixs, Grand Ams, Malibus) is that they are still miserable little
sons-of-Citations, except when I get one with a 3800 v6. Ford's my
second pick if Daimler messes too much with Chrysler.

 

Well I am not a Chrysler expert (having only suffered through two of
their producs). I thought the AC body was just another K car variant.
The specs sure look like it.

http://www.allpar.com/model/dynasty.html

From http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1990/mbody.htm :

Most people don't know it, but the AC/Y bodies (Imperial, Dynasty, FWD
5th Ave, New Yorker of the 1990's) were the replacement for the M-body
line when it ended in 1989.

The first true AC/Y body was the Dodge Dynasty, which entered the
market for the 1988 year. The car was originally meant to be a more
expensive (top of the line Dodge model) box-like car, based on the
k-cars (like all of the other FWD Mopars of that era). The Dynasty was
mostly of original design, and had little taken or influenced by other
models. The grill seemed to be based on the older grills used in the
80's LeBaron, and the rear tail lights look to be influenced by the
M-body series, but other then that, the car's body was mostly unique.

From http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/chrysler-faq/general/part1/ :

29. What are the K-cars?

Herb DaSilva:
Chrysler used the components on the Aries/Reliant (K) in many of
its other platforms. These platforms... share similar distance
between the wheels on the same axle, and have the same suspension
design. Most K variants can swap struts (H is an exception).
K derivates include: Laser (pre-88)/Daytona (G), Shadow/Sundance
(P), LeBaron/New Yorker (J), LeBaron sedan (pre-90)/Lancer
(H), Dynasty/New Yorker/Imperial (C), Acclaim/Spirit/LeBaron sedan
(AA). Each derivative has a different wheelbase and floor pan.
The minivan is only loosely based on the K platform. (Executive
and Limousine were low-production extended-Ks, and the CSX
was a performance Sundance/Shadow).

These cars are collectively referred to as EEKs.
There is a mailing list for them at http://www.eekcars.com/

From http://www.eekcars.com/ :

This on-line car club serves those who have everyday extended K-based
cars from Chrysler Corporation - every front wheel drive Chrysler,
Plymouth, and Dodge car made from the 1980s through 1995 with the
exception of the LH series (Intrepid family), L series (Omni family),
Cloud Cars, Neon, and imports.


Regards,

Ed White

 

|
|
| James C. Reeves wrote:
|
| > | > | On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Geoff wrote:
| > |
| > | > what they make and what they do to get it is none of my damn business,
| > | > and I think it ought to be viewed as same by everyone else.
| > |
| > | Ah. Everyone ought to think just like you do. Understood.
| > |
| > | > Good Lord, 'class divide'? Horsepucky. The 'class divide' is being
| > | > manufactured by the American Left. It's a complete fabrication!
| > |
| > | Sure. So then there's no such thing as Americans who lack access to basic
| > | healthcare, for instance?
| > |
| >
| > Those that I know (including some family members) that don't have health
| > insurance is because they don't want to pay for it. They can easily afford
it
| > and they simply choose not to get it. "Access" is truly not the problem
some
| > politicians claim. Everyone can buy health insurance here in the states if
| > they choose to...it is available.
| >
|
| Hi...
|
| Yup. The thousands of homeless americans should just
| run right out and buy it.
|
| Ken
|

Those people likely have bigger problems than health insurance...like why they
aren't taking advantage of available social services that would remedy the
situation you describe. That is available also. At some point one has to
decide to help themselves.

 

Cool, thanks for the tip. Not sure if what I have is a early Neptune. It has
manual dial controls vs. the electronic controls the ones they sell these days.

| If you have one of the early Neptunes, call Maytag and say the word "mildew"
| and they will come out and make a bunch of improvements to it for free....
| new circuit board, seals, etc.
|

 

Sounds like an early one like mine. Call them and say you have a mildew
stain on the gray seal and it smells inside. They will come to your house
for free and after they are done you will have new seal with drain,
ventilated inner door, improve cycles though they are slightly longer,
better rinsing, protection of the door lock form chlorine fumes. Takes
about an hour. The phone number is on the machine where you stick in
detergent. By the way they will sell you a 3 year extended warranty for
about $325 which might be worth it on an older machine. But the fix is free
even without buying the extended warranty.

 

Clare - What year Mystique? I have owned and maintained a '96 Mystique
and a '98 Contour (Ford's Mystique) for several years now for my
daughters, and so am familiar with their peculiarities. A very good
enthusiast site for Contours/Mystiques (or more affectionately known as
"Contiques") is www.contour.org, complete with discussion forums and
years of searchable archives.

One reason that I ask what year you have is that there was a serious
flaw in under-hood wiring in '95 thru '97 MY's which I may be able to
give you some pointers on (both in recognizing symptoms of and fixing).

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")