Looking for a mid-size domestic car recommendation

"Improvements" is not the same thing as "All New".

Obviously you love those boats, more power to you.

John

 

Could be one reason law enforcement use them so much.

US law enforcement is in love with big rear wheel drive vehicles, and
everyone else dropped out of that game. It is a wonder that the Japanese
police are able to do their jobs without access to the Crown Vic. Of
course if one looks at the relative crime rates of industrialized countries
then the US police do not seem to be very effective. I would not consider
the vehicle choice of US police departments to be an indicator of great
expertise.


From http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=3231 :
Murders per 100,000.
1. Russia Federation 18.07
2. United States 6.32
3. Malaysia 2.73
Taiwan 1.17
Spain 1.08
Japan 0.58

Rape per 100,000.
1. United States 34.20
2. England and Wales 14.69
3. France 13.38
Taiwan 8.82
South Korea 4.38
Spain 3.23
Japan 1.48

Serious Assault per 100,000.
1. Australia 713.68
2. England & Wales 405.20
3. United States 357.94
Taiwan 37.30
Spain 23.94
Japan 15.40

Robbery/Violent Theft per 100,000.
1. Spain 169.85
2. United States 169.02
3. France 144.10
Taiwan 14.35
South Korea 11.74
Japan 2.71

 

The Dynasty and New Yorker are significantly larger cars than the
Stratus, Malibu, Accord and Camry.
More LHS and 300M sized - bigger than a VandenPlas or Sovreign Jag.
Bigger than a 3500 or 3.5 Rover. Almost the size of a small Rolls.
As for the Taurus, it sure feels like a smaller car than the
Dynasty/New Yorker. The Crown Vic IS larger. The Avalon is roughly the
same size.

 

My brother's shop services a fleet of limos. The only ones blowing
smoke rings are the Caddies. I don't think there's a limo in the fleet
with less than 300,000Km on it. The Lincs and Crown Vics just keep on
going like the Energizer Bunny, while the Caddies keep coming back
like an onion sandwich.

 

:
|
| Art wrote:
| >
| > Hi Mike... I see you found the Chrysler group.
| >
| > The old technology give away on the CV is the wheelbase. Everytime
I see
| > one on the road (not often) I wonder where the people in the
backseat put
| > their legs.
|
| They put them on the floor. I am 6'3" and I never have any
| trouble riding in the back of my Mom's Grand Marquis.

They may put their feet on the floor. If they put their LEGS on the
floor, this I got to see!

By the way, the new Five Hundred has nearly TWICE the knee room in the
back seat that the Panthers (CV and GM) have....

john cline ii, who thinks someone is confused....

 

So you are telling all of us that "Mr Wagoner" who did not form the
company, does not own a controlling interest in the company and did
not raise the funds to create the company is exponentially more
valuable than the guy working on the line? Than the VP who's ready to
take his job? Than the Sr Manager? If so you are either naive or
delusional. "Mr. Wagoner" has not done as good a job as any number of
any European CEO's earning a fraction of what he "receives".

You are saying that Mr Wagoner" is the absolute best that could be
retained? I'm somewhat sceptical. As are, I would imagine the
shareholders of Toyota who are getting a MUCH better bang for their
investment buck (or Yen as the case may be)

Not cheap, efficiently. Say tie his wage exclusively to the
performance of the company. If the company does better than before he
arrived, paid. Worse, No-Pay. Sounds simple & if he is a good as
you state, he'd jump at the chance.

Don't think that's the point here.

Hmm..... Ask the People in Flint Michigan their opinion on this
matter.

Ahh yes....So that we can retain world stability, low oil prices, &
good relations with the allies..... I'm not GWB's enemy, But I
think there are better candidates (not that I'm a Kerry fan by any
measure)

Tell me Geoff. Are you happy with your Car Insurance Premiums? Odds
are that your insurance company has money invested in GM / Ford &
other large Blue chip companies with similar pay scales for the CEO's.
Guess who's premium dollars are helping to pay for these bloated
salaries.... These are real Dollars & a pile of quality dollars have
to be shaved off of every car to pay that wage.

We love the cars, not the Business school graduates who couldn't get
a job at Enron or Tyco or Arthur Anderson or Adelphia or or or or....

 

Right.... A car manufacturer that is unable to retain it's massive
market share and is forced to go after a completely different market
in order to survive. (tells one more about the banking industry than
it does the auto sector)

The stock market is not supposed to be gambling. Ever heard of a
prospectus? or an Audit? The people at Enron & Tyco forgot about
those as well.

Hmm... If you realized how little effort many of these people at the
top put in to get or retain their positions you may well change your
view (perhaps time will be a patient enough educator for you) if it
doesn't upset you at the moment because you do not feel affect feel
blessed. However don't forget another place and time ("let them eat
cake") where there was a similar massive class divide. ("Petite
Bourgeois") which was followed by a change in the economic structure &
the ensuing "removal of the heads" of various establishments.

The people of France suffered quite badly, the elite's only suffered
very briefly whilst their heads were removed.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We
should be striving for a Meritocracy not a return to Feudal rule under
any other name.


PS this isn't intended as a personal attack, merely a critique of your
points.

 

Even if you didn't buy any stock "you" own stock. Through your
insurance company, your state, your town/city, your bank etc. I'll
bet that you'd love a 10% + cut in your taxes with the same level of
service. if they got a better return on their investments you could
have that. Instead..............

I can't even begin to comment on the last three paragraphs.

 

Jeeze, Those Japs SUCK at crime ! ! !

We're #1 We're #1 We're #1 YEAH ! ! !

PS I think that the cops choose the rear drives is that they are much
less likely to spill their coffee's or lose their donuts during chases
(nice soft ride). Whereas the Japs, Brits & other lots don't have
access Tim Hortons, Dunkin Donuts, Krispy Kreme etc....

PPS, I also think the relative age of the populations in question has
a determinant factor on violet crimes. As the police here are
slapping themselves on the back for accomplishing great leaps in crime
reduction as the baby boom ages....

 

They're a great tool for a job.

Carving up a canyon road? give me a Cosworth Escort or Lotus Esprit
turbo any day.

Doing double nickle across 5 states in an afternoon? Crown Vic, A/C,
hot coffee, a box of dounuts and XM radio without question.

 

Ahh... that's where you are wrong.

See on a day like today when the Provice of Ontario gave Ford $100
Million tied to the Federal $100 Million bribe to keep Ford production
going here in Ontario, we're part of Canada.

However "Tomorrow" when Ontario signs a deal with Michigan, Ohio & New
York to further mesh the power grids it will be Southern Ontario - USA
(foot note, "Ontario" is short for "The Greater Toronto Area")

 

The 500 has a larger trunk as well, it is huge. The 500 and
Montego get their room from a higher roof line and elevated
seating position.. The CV/GM has more hip room
and the superior handling of RWD. To get the 500 to handle one,
well one well need to purchase the more expensive AWD version
which is biased to the rear.


mike hunt

I wonder where the people in the

 

Ah yes but nobody is spending their last dollar or leaving
everything they own or even their family to swim on a raft, hide
in a cargo box, die in the desert or the wheel well of an plane
to get to any of those other countries are they?


mike hunt

 

I see the service records of thousands of them in our fleet
service business. I know how well they perform,
are built and hold up. I was merely pointing to the outstanding
value of the CV/GM.. It is your money spend
it where you wish, I could not car less. Personally I drive a
2005 Lincoln LS V8 and a 2003 Mustang GT convertible.



mike hunt

 

Mike Hunt wrote:

| The 500 has a larger trunk as well, it is huge. The 500 and
| Montego get their room from a higher roof line and elevated
| seating position.. The CV/GM has more hip room
| and the superior handling of RWD. To get the 500 to handle one,
| well one well need to purchase the more expensive AWD version
| which is biased to the rear.

BZZZT. I'm sorry, but that is not correct.

The Five Hundred/Montego AWD system drives the front wheels ONLY,
unless and until slippage is detected, when it can send some or all of
the power to the rear wheels. Say Haldex....

john cline ii, who hopes that helps....

 

Ed, thank you! It is nice to get such a thorough response. Yes, I am
talking about that Dynasty. My Dynasty can comfortably sit 6 people
(maybe more). I will look at Toyota Avalon and Ford C.V. Chrysler
300 has also been suggested on this thread, so I will take a look as
well. Thank you again.

 

If you are thinking about an Avalon, drive one with a bunch of miles on it
first. I own a 300M and an Avalon and the Avalon is a rattle box. And that
is one of the better features.

http://www.AutoForumz.com/eform.php?p=282419

 

If you look at the specs for the various cars mentioned, the only area
where the Dynasty is significantly "bigger" than an Stratus, Accord,
Malibu, or Camry is the overall lenght and the trunk size. In fact it is
smaller in many dimensions that matter (interior room) compared to the
Accord, Malibu, and Camry and smaller than the Taurus in almost every
dimension. It is closer to the Stratus in size than to the 300 - at
least on the outside. The 300 has terrible intreior room for such a
large heavy car - I guess it really is a throw back to the "good" old
days of Chrysler.

Here are the comparisons:

Dynasty Accord Taurus Malibu Camry Status 300
Wheelbase, in. 104.5 107.9 108.5 108.3 107.1 108.0 120.0
Overall Length, in. 193.6 189.5 197.6 188.3 189.2 191.2 196.8
Overall Width, in. 68.9 71.5 73.0 69.9 70.7 70.6 74.1
Overall Height, in. 53.6 57.1 56.1 57.5 58.7 54.9 58.4
Curb Weight, lbs. 3276 3053 3313 3297 3362 3182 3711
Cargo Volume, cu. ft. 16.5 14.0 17.0 15.4 16.7 16.0 16.0
Seating Capacity 6 5 5or6 5 5 5 5
Front Head Room, in. 38.3 38.3 40.0 39.4 39.2 37.6 38.7
Front Leg Room, in. 41.9 42.6 42.2 41.9 41.6 42.3 41.8
Rear Head Room, in. 37.8 36.8 38.1 37.6 38.4 35.8 38.0
Rear Leg Room, in. 38.9 36.8 38.9 38.5 37.8 38.1 40.2

Check the specs above, the Taurus is bigger than the Dynasty in almost
every dimension. The Avalon is little more than a widened Camry with
some extra sheet metal tacked on to make it look bigger.

Ed

 

I actually have an Ecotech 4 in a Saturn and really like it. Of course I
only have 20,000 miles on the engine., but I swear I've never had an
engine that keeps the oil looking so clean and that is with 6,000 mile
oil changes. I keep waitng for the oil change indicator to tell me it is
time to change oil, but so far, I've always changed it before the light
came on becasue of convenience issues (changing before a trip, or ona
slow weekend). So far the engine has not leaked any oil, or given me the
slightest reasons to worry. Maybe it will turn south before 100,000
miles, but at this point I am a very pleased. I only wish the VTi
transmission would inspire as much confidence. This is the first GM car
I have ever owned, and so far, I am very pleased. It is not like the old
days when my uncles always used to leave oil spots all over our driveway
when they visited in their varous GM products.

I've been associated with so many crappy Chrysler products, it would
take a lot of convincing before I'd buy anything from DC.

Ed

 

Depends what years you are looking at, I guess. My New Yorker sitting
beside the neighbour's Camry, is DEFINITELY larger.
Travelling in the New Yorker or friend's Camry, the Chrysler
DEFINITELY has more room, width and length and hieght.

The new Camry is a bit bigger.