Looking for a mid-size domestic car recommendation

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by steve, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. Yes, in UK medical insurance for doctors has been rising substantially...

    DAS
     
    Dori A Schmetterling, Aug 26, 2004
  2. Unlikely. US designs got progessvely uglier...

    Anyway, in which respect did Merc copy US car designs?

    DAS
     
    Dori A Schmetterling, Aug 26, 2004
  3. ....and they'd've been right.
    HIV/AIDS doesn't transmit via simple proximity the way influenza or SARS
    or the common cold or Strep or Polio or other infectious diseases are
    transmitted. As such, quarantine cannot be justified on any logical,
    rational, scientific grounds. The overwhelming majority of new HIV/AIDS
    cases are utterly preventable. HIV/AIDS doesn't just come out of nowhere
    and attack people the way most cancers do. It's real easy to reduce the
    risk of contracting HIV/AIDS to damn near zero: Don't have dangerous sex.
    Don't stick dirty needles into your body.

    I'm not saying that people who have HIV/AIDS deserve it or deserve to get
    sick or deserve to die or anything of the sort. I'm not advocating a halt
    to research into a cure. What I am saying is that the pandemic as it
    exists in the first world is largely preventable at a cost of $0.00/case.

    The pandemic as it exists in large swaths of Africa is another matter
    altogether, and the way it's being (not) handled strongly suggests to me
    that pharmaceutical company interests lie in ever-changing treatments
    rather than a cure. Sick people need to continue to buy drugs. Healthy
    people don't.

    I'm very consistent in my philosophy on these types of matters. I feel
    similarly about lung cancer: If you don't want to get it, you can reduce
    your risk to damn near zero: Don't smoke tobacco. Not in cigarettes, not
    in pipes, not in cigars. I feel similarly about road injuries and deaths
    in those who don't wear seatbelts. It's a question of personal
    responsibility. Each of us takes it every day when we're walking down the
    sidewalk: We make the conscious decision NOT to jump into the street in
    front of a city bus. Your "quarantine 'em!" idea is akin to saying buses
    can kill, so we should drydock all the buses.

    I'm sure Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter and their ilk would love a
    quarantine on HIV-positive people, for reasons having nothing to do with
    control of disease propagation.
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Aug 26, 2004
  4. steve

    Geoff Guest

    Okay, I'll bite. Can you cite an occasion where Rush Limbaugh has
    advocated for the 'quarantine' of HIV-positive people? Can you explain
    the reasoning behind your contention that those of his 'ilk' (which I
    take to mean the Conservatives of the American right) would want to see
    something like this happen? (Or are you speaking of another 'ilk' --
    such as talk radio show hosts?)

    Can you even hear Rush Limbaugh on the airwaves available in Toronto
    without paying for a subscription to his website (as if!)? The point
    is: do you listen to the show, or are you just throwing out criticism
    based on what you've heard?

    C'mon, Dan, you're usually *far* more intellectually honest than this.

    --Geoff
     
    Geoff, Aug 26, 2004
  5. I just thought that I'd butt in here. I'm possibly going to be a doctor. Do
    you know how much liability insurance is for them? Anywhere from 53k a year
    on up to around 300k (http://www.acep.org/1,32158,0.html). How about you try
    dealing with the human body? Next time you're sick don't go to a doctor,
    figure it out on your own and figure out the way to take care of it.

    These are people that go to school for around 8 years, give or take a few.
    When they're done on average they have around 100k in student loans. Then
    they go to internships where they're "only" supposed to work 80 hours a
    week, yet some hospitals make them work more. Many times they're going in
    for 120 to 140 hours a week. So help me out here, why should I work so hard
    to become a doctor if I'm just going to get my ass sued off?
     
    Phillip Schmid, Aug 26, 2004
  6. steve

    Geoff Guest

    Simple. Because through all of your hard work and study, people sharing
    Art's political philosophy (roughly: "you've got more than me, so hand
    it over") stand to get rich. They want to piggyback off your efforts
    in order to make up for their own shortcomings. They'll use class envy and
    trumped up media coverage to do so, because, after all, a perfect
    outcome should be within reach of every physician in every circumstance.

    (I must caution you, though, that if you're too successful as a
    physician, you'll likely contribute to that other Big Social Problem:
    the overwhelmingly large population of the aged, for which the only
    prescribed remedy will be yet another form of socialism. Don't say you
    weren't warned.)

    Personally, I hope that somebody like you who's bright enough to see the
    pitfalls continues on to become a medical doctor. You'll likely have to
    put up with idiots bemoaning your high pay and tolerate punitive
    insurance premiums, but good people are needed in the medical
    profession.

    Best of luck.

    --Geoff
     
    Geoff, Aug 26, 2004
  7. steve

    Art Guest

    So tell your fellow professionals not to screw up and insurance rates will
    go down. But instead you want government regulation. That is what I love
    about rightwingers. No government regulation allowed except to screw
    consumers.
     
    Art, Aug 26, 2004
  8. steve

    Full_Name Guest

    In the 60's Merc's had the little wings. However it was quickly
    dropped before it reached the Cadillac wing proportions. See the link
    below

    http://www.heckflosse.nl/photo.htm
    This site has a better picture selectoin

    This was just a quick google search. I'm sure that there's better
    site's out there. This is just what I was talking about.

    http://www.whnet.com/4x4/W210_crashtest.html
    second picture from the bottom second last (W110 fin-tail)
     
    Full_Name, Aug 27, 2004
  9. steve

    Full_Name Guest

    The Doctor's that complain about health insurance premiums are the
    last one's to want a competency ranking list posted for all.

    If there were such a list posted, the AMA wouldn't be able to disguise
    the appallingly poor skill of some MD's.

    Since we're on a Doctor / Lawyer rant here, have you ever heard a
    group of Lawyers b*tch that court results should be kept secret so
    that Lawyers with bad clients aren't punished? No Never.

    It's a poor tradesman that blames his tools.

    Yet Doctors seem to think that they should be able to hide poor
    practice behind "human variability". When in reality it's either
    incompetent Dr's, or experimentation on human guinea pigs who are too
    frail to "survive the treatment" (the MD should recognize before going
    down a given path the best course of action. After all they've got 8+
    years of post grad training right?)

    My plastic Surgeon has been practicing since 1964 & all of his work is
    word of mouth referral & cash payment, he's yet to be called to a
    medical review board for malpractice, and everyone I know that has
    gone to him has no qualms about using their lawyers for any complaints
    they have.

    PS As a side note though I would think that a large # of those
    patients dying from medical mistakes are as a result of either
    understaffed nurses not having the time to carefully double check
    prescriptions to patients or lack of due diligence on the part of
    support staff.

    Some Canadian Hospitals are providing patients with lists of their own
    medications so they can check that they're taking what they've been
    prescribed. (last think you want is an hemophiliac taking an
    Anticoagulant because someone didn't double check which bed got the
    heart medication & which the other medicine).

    The main question is this though:

    What kind of car is the Dr driving.............
     
    Full_Name, Aug 27, 2004
  10. steve

    Full_Name Guest

    Wasn't the war on drugs a fund raising effort for the police forces?

    I'm always puzzled when one drug ( for example powdered cocaine or
    rock cocaine <crack>) is treated differently depending upon the target
    user group.

    But I suppose whatever allows the police to strip search your
    girlfriends and frisk your wives to stop "evil dooers" has got to be
    good. :)

    Ahh... I should have gone into Law Enforcement..... The perks....
     
    Full_Name, Aug 27, 2004
  11. I think that pretty much sums it up.

    Thanks, I'm sure I'll be needing it when I'm all done with schooling.
     
    Phillip Schmid, Aug 27, 2004
  12. steve

    Full_Name Guest

    Correct NOW. Initially incorrect (20/20 hindsight) being what it is.
    Unless you happen to be a child born of an Aids infected mother in the
    3rd world
    Most cancers don't. lifestyle, environment, genetics & aging are big
    factors. How many people died of cancer 100 years ago?
    You mean any sex with a person who isn't 100% exclusive to you and
    tested for Aids weekly. Remember when AIDS first came out? Oral sex
    was referred to as Safe Sex. Only later did they discover how
    inaccurate that notion was
    or go into a hospital when on vacation, or get any IVF treatment or
    share a toothbrush/razor or sleep with someone you don't keep locked
    up etc...

    When Princess Di started her 'save the world crusade" AIDS was thought
    of as a community based treatable condition. No one really though of
    the implications of a ready conduit for pathogens such as AIDS in the
    general population. Remember it's not AIDS that kills people it's
    what AIDS allows to bloom.
    If only that were truly the case. Human Biology over-rides any
    transient disease/ailment or any "moral values" some may try to impose
    on the society. Bubonic plague for example. Wiped out a massive % of
    the European population but Human Biology over came it survived
    through "natural selection" as it were. Some scientists have
    discovered that families that have survived the "Black death" have a
    lower risk of AIDS infection.
    There was something on the research network about that a while back
    I fail to see the connection between a disease spread through normal
    human interaction (yes, sex is normal for most people <Nuns & Michael
    Jackson excepted>). and an inanimate machine.

    Tell me if you can see, hear, smell, & feel the rush of air as a bus
    approaches? Good Now, Looking at two healthy beautiful naked women
    lying on your bed, how do you know which one may have been recently
    infected with HIV?
    Agreed. Though, I doubt they have a beef with the hemophilia society
    and it's members.

    Keeping the thread on-topic.. Is the Bus a GM bus? or at the very
    least a Ballard Fuel cell powered bus?


    As for your take on Cancer. Many cancers are accelerated by excess
    caloric intake. Should we deny treatment for people who are not at
    the ideal weight because they increased their risk?

    Cancerous cells exist in every persons body for at least one point in
    their lives. HIV does not. (or at least should not).

    If you could theoretically quarantine everyone with cancer would that
    stop new cases? We are told it would with AIDS.
     
    Full_Name, Aug 27, 2004
  13. steve

    Full_Name Guest

    C'mon Geoff. Don't rally to the support of a prescription drug
    abusing hypocrite. Let poor old Rush age gracefully outside of the
    glare of the limelight.

    PS this is my Troll bait just for fun.


    PPS anyone know if Rush Drives a GM?
     
    Full_Name, Aug 27, 2004
  14. I have no problems with suing IF the person can do a better job themselves
    based on the problems. I DO want legislature passed that'll limit the amount
    that can be gained. I think here in WI it's something like 100k, which is
    alot better then the millions that people seem to get.

    I'm also not sure if you've heard, but doctors here in the US can choose to
    not see certain people. As a matter of fact I think in South Carolina some
    doctors have recently chosen not to treat lawyers and their clients that
    bring malpractice suits against them.

    If it's so easy to tell people not to screw up and get it right then let's
    see how you do here.

    A man injures his wrist on broken glass. Which of the following structures
    entering the palm superficial to the flexor retinaculum may be damaged?

    Ulnar nerve and median nerve - A
    Median nerve and flexor digitorum profundus - B
    Median nerve and flexor pollicis longus - C
    Ulnar artery and ulnar nerve - D
    Ulnar nerve and flexor digitorum superficialis - E

    I have a few more if you want to keep going too.
     
    Phillip Schmid, Aug 27, 2004
  15. steve

    Full_Name Guest

    well seeing as flexor digitorum profundus is your deep muscle for
    flexion, that would rule B out I think.
    and as the Flexor pollicis Longus is a muscle of the radial side of
    the forearm that to my mind rules C out.
    Seeing as the flexor digitorum superficialis is a superficial muscle
    of the palmar side of the forearm I'll rule that E out.
    Seeing as the Ulnar is the bone extending from the elbow to the wrist
    on the side opposite to the thumb in humans that would rule D out I
    think.

    I guess that would really only leave A Ulnar nerve and median nerve
    BUT, I could well be wrong seeing as I've got no training in that
    field.. However I suppose another factor to consider would be the
    trajectory of the glass and the persons definition of "superficial":

    Do they mean:
    a) Trivial & insignificant.
    b) Concerned with only what is apparent or obvious
    c) Apparent rather than actual or substantial
    or
    d) being on or near the surface?

    But you're reading a post from a person who's language training is
    not in medicine, but in the arts & engineering.

    I'm not expecting my Jiffy Lube kid to know a Brachial Plexus from a
    Acromioclavicular Joint. But you know damn well I expect him to know
    the difference between engine oil & brake fluid when he's filling
    "reservoir's" under the hood of my car. Plus if it was your Car that
    had engine oil swell all the rubber in your braking system you would
    expect compensation and not think that your right to sue should be
    limited to the cost of a free oil change.

    I expect the same from my medical "Professionals" I don't care if
    they know the difference between a stoichiometric fuel/air mixture &
    stichometric prose construction, but I damn well expect (and by the
    way, pay) them to know the difference between a Scapula and a Clavicle

    Hence. the basis of lawsuits for shoddy doctors. I admire and
    respect competent professionals in all fields. I believe that
    incompetent & fraudulent characters from any field should be removed
    (*ESPECIALLY GOVERNMENT*) Lawsuits are an extremely blunt instrument
    but until we get to see MD's medical school grades and patient
    treatment reviews plus treatment results, it's all we've got to work
    with.

    Want to stop lawsuits? Have a public rating system for doctors where
    people sign waivers acknowledging their understanding of their
    doctor's abilities & a "meat chart" for injuries (incorrectly
    amputated arm $50K, erroneously sterilization of a young woman $25K
    etc etc

    just my $0.02
     
    Full_Name, Aug 27, 2004
  16. steve

    Art Guest

    I'm sure the lawyers won't mind taking the money of incompetent doctors who
    need a legal defense. Lawyers are much more fair-minded than incompetent
    doctors, in my experience. I have lots of doctor friends. Only 1 has been
    sued and it was for a relatively trivial amount and he admits a difficult
    patient and paper work screw up did him in. He hasn't made the mistake
    again. If a patient won't cooperate he shows him the door and he makes sure
    he writes all his notes down immediately.

    By the way, about 5% of the doctors are responsible for almost half the
    malpractice awards. If the doctors policed themselves and took away those
    bad doctor's licenses your rates would go down by about half.
     
    Art, Aug 27, 2004
  17. steve

    Full_Name Guest

    where I rambled, you were succinct
    Kudo's !
     
    Full_Name, Aug 27, 2004
  18. It's D in case you were wondering. I was just using it as an example to show
    that medicine isn't as easy as some people think it is.

    I do think that there is a way to find out stuff about your doctor. I can't
    honestly remember how but I think it has something to do with the licensing
    board.

    I'm fine with people suing medical practitioners if they don't fix whatever
    harm they've done. It's the extravagent amount of money that people get
    suing doctors that I have a problem with. I can understand a little extra
    for pain. I remember reading of a case in Germany where a lady sued her
    doctor after surgery for leaving an instrument in her. I believe that she
    got $20k for pain/suffering and the cost of the surgery to get the
    instrument out. I think that's very reasonable.
     
    Phillip Schmid, Aug 27, 2004
  19. I'm going to try to find that article, I don't think it was just the doctors
    that were being sued that declined to care for someone. I also think it
    wasn't for lawyers that just had one lawsuit under their belt but the ones
    that advertise it. I can't say that I really blame them though.

    There's a doctor a bit away from here that has quite a few lawsuits lining
    up against him and because of those he's been under investigation by the
    licensing board. I also think that patients have the ability to complain to
    boards about their doctors. If there are enough complaints they investigate
    and revoke/suspend licenses.

    Somewhere here in Wisconsin there was a couple whoms' child died during an
    illness. So they sued the doctor for misdiagnosing the illness (they won but
    they hit the $100k limit). I've heard of lawsuits where a doctor was sued
    after stopping at an accident to help it's victims. One of the questions
    that med schools ask is "If you drove past an accident without any
    responders there would you get out and help the victims knowing full well
    that you could be sued?" I'd be wary of getting out and helping knowing that
    if I screw up it's my head even if I save a life or lives. There is going to
    be a point where the lawsuits get so frivolous that people aren't going to
    consider going into that profession.
     
    Phillip Schmid, Aug 27, 2004
  20. steve

    Joe Pfeiffer Guest

    And if that doesn't work, make the drug laws sricter!
    And if the pushers don't want to be arrested, disarm the rest of
    society!
    And if money laundering happens, limit how much cash people can hold!
    And, hey, using drug money to mount a legal defense is *wrong*, so
    confiscate assets before they're convicted! And if they somehow get
    off the hook, make 'em sue to get their assets back! Hang on, the
    legal procedures to recover the assets are publically available? Tell
    the libraries to shred that!

    See how much we can improve society by stamping out drugs?
     
    Joe Pfeiffer, Aug 27, 2004
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