Interesting Pacifica feature

| | > Signals flash at a slow rate. A highspeed pulsing "strobe effect"
| > under hard breaking would be VERY effective - particularly with LED
| > CHMSL.
| > >>
|
| Cop cars get whacked on the side of the road while conducting business with
| all kinds of flashing lights because the driver didn't see them....why would
| this be any more noticeable?
|
|

Maybe if the cops would just add one more flashing light to the six they
already have will do the trick. What the heck, just add six more to the
original six (twelve total). Doubling the number of flashing lights just has
to work better...right? If that doesn't work (and it won't), add 12 more to
those 12 for 24 flashing lights. Just keep on adding more flashing lights on
top of more flashing lights. More is better, right? ;-) Sometimes one just
has to wonder if people _really_ want all that stimulus around them all the
time!!! Well, it will sell blood pressure medicine, I suppose.

 

What about it? It was one of the early motivators behind the idea for a
center high mounted brake light. Rigorous studies found no safety benefit
to the blinking effect.

DS

 

And it's ridiculous that North America is still allowing flashing red lights
on the backs of cars anyway. At least half the cars on the road already
use amber turn signals (as they are imports) and it would not be any
hardship to the domestic automakers to mandate flashing amber turn
signals by 2007. The only place a flashing red light for a turn signal
belongs is on the back of a boat trailer.

Ted

 

What's more, the US regulators want the rest of the world to allow red
(as if countries like Germany and Australia will agree to go back to
1956) and are preventing the Canadian regulators from mandating amber.

There's no correlation between country of vehicle origin and rear turn
signal color. Lots of US-designed vehicles have amber, and lots of imports
have red.

Of course it wouldn't.

The rest of the world doesn't allow flashing red lights for turn signals,
even on boat trailers.

DS

 

Which claim? That signals flash at a slow rate, that pulsing would be
effective, or that it would be particularly effective with flashing
LEDs????
No study to cite. Just experience. You see those flashing LED safety
beacons cyclists and joggers use? They stand out.
Don't know about you, but I'm smart enough to tell the difference
between a high frequency flasher and a turn signal. LEDs dfash better
than bulbs because there is no "fade", either going on or off.

 

Those would be?

 

I'll not argue the legal part; as for the safe.. well.. the safest
thing would be to get brain dead vehicle operators off the road. All
the lights/warning indicators in the world won't stop some of them.

I always watch mirrors when I'm slowing down/stopped to turn off the
road onto a side street.. at least once this past year it served me
well. I watched imbecile operator close distance to me with no
indication of slowing down until I knew they weren't going to stop and
redlinefirstgeardumptheclutch. Time to get out of Dodge. Way too late
it penetrated their brain cloud that there was 3000lbs of vehicle not
moving in front of them and they hammered the brakes. They ended up
skidding through where I had been stopped.. Once both cars were
stopped I got out and had a 'talk' with the imbecile.. seems he was
looking for a street and didn't notice I had stopped.

I currently work on a research farm.. Right through the middle of the
farm is a 45 mph road. People usually run around 60 mph on it, and
don't expect people to turn off the road into driveways. I'm aware
that the boss and two supervisors have been rear ended while turning
off this road. I don't like being on the road and turning off it
unless I'm in my 5 ton service truck. Even then I don't put myself in
front of any large vehicles.

There are enough indicators on vehicles for reasonable people to
determine what the vehicle is doing. What we need is for people to
start paying attention.

Happy New Year everyone..

Regards,

Jim

 

One thing I'd like to know about this, is how can one be sure that the
strobing effect wouldn't cause epileptic seizures? There's just so
many factors to consider that I'd be hesitant to install any lighting
equipment on my car that doesn't conform to at least one regulatory
code (whether NHTSA or ECE) without thoroughly thinking it through.

nate

 

I have to disagree with most of you guys on one thing. There will not
be any confusion between a flashing brake light and turn signal light
in my area of the country. Most of the dumb drivers around here are
too lazy to use the latter.

 

Well you're entitled to your opinion, as am I.

 

Good solution....is that before or after somebody plows into the rear of
your car and breaks your back?

 

Certainly, but mine's got a great deal more weight behind it in this field
than yours has.

DS

 

| On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:17:00 -0500, "James C. Reeves"
|
| >| Signals flash at a slow rate. A highspeed pulsing "strobe effect"
| >| under hard breaking would be VERY effective - particularly with LED
| >| CHMSL.
| >
| >Cite the source of the studies that prove that claim please.
| Which claim? That signals flash at a slow rate, that pulsing would be
| effective, or that it would be particularly effective with flashing
| LEDs????

The later (obviously).

| No study to cite. Just experience. You see those flashing LED safety
| beacons cyclists and joggers use? They stand out.

No doubt, but then they don't have any other lighting systems like a car
already does. Apples and oranges.

| Don't know about you, but I'm smart enough to tell the difference
| between a high frequency flasher and a turn signal.

You may want to factor in the medical conditions that exist among the general
populations OR the meds some people take that can cause light sensitivity among
other things. For example (and there are dozens), strobe lighting can cause
epileptic seizures among some people. Others on certan medications can become
transed (or transfixed) by strobes. Neither situation would be a good thing to
happen to a driver...safety negative for sure. The fact that a high number of
standing police vehicles outfitted with all sorts of blinking and strobing
lights are rammed every year is some indication that this may not be an answer.
They are rammed in greater frequency than a regular car with normal flashers
changing a tire are. Also, if you've ever driven in bumper-to-bumper rush hour
traffic where brake lights are almost constantly on, unnecessary "strobing"
brake lights on all of the 30-50 cars you can see in front of you would
certainly not do one's end-of-the-day headache any good!

Your personal observation nonwithstanding, the real world is much more complex
with many dynamics that need to be factored in (that you don't personally see).
Your personal perceptions can be very different than that of an average
population. IF strobe brake lights are ever considered by the authorities, let
us hope that the appropriate studies are done to know for sure exactly what the
pros and cons of such a device would be BEFORE a decision is made.

| LEDs dfash better
| than bulbs because there is no "fade", either going on or off.
| >
|

I agree that LED arrays are more appropriate signaling devices for that reason
(quicker illumination response) as well as longevity reasons (fewer burnouts).

 

|
| One thing I'd like to know about this, is how can one be sure that the
| strobing effect wouldn't cause epileptic seizures? There's just so
| many factors to consider that I'd be hesitant to install any lighting
| equipment on my car that doesn't conform to at least one regulatory
| code (whether NHTSA or ECE) without thoroughly thinking it through.
|
| nate

A wise approach. Too bad everyone doesn't follow that very good advice. Even
if the codes are somewhat crappy, they at least allow common protocol of
signaling messages that most everyone on the road understands.

 

|
|
| Good solution....is that before or after somebody plows into the rear of
| your car and breaks your back?
|
|

....you mean from the epileptic seizure the driver behind you had that was
caused by your strobing brake light?

Strobe lighting causes epileptic seizures to occur among a fairly high number
of people in the population. Others on certan meds can become transed (or
transfixed) by strobes. Neither situation would be a good thing to happen to a
driver behind you and could certaintly contribute to the scenario you mention.

 

| I have to disagree with most of you guys on one thing. There will not
| be any confusion between a flashing brake light and turn signal light
| in my area of the country. Most of the dumb drivers around here are
| too lazy to use the latter.
|

So are you suggesting different standards for different areas?

 

Have any real studies been done in this area, or is everything based on
opinion and speculation?


Matt

 

There've been studies. I'll see about collecting some of them at the TRB
Visibility Committee meeting in DC next week.

DS

 

EXCELLENT IDEA!!! Here's my suggestion:

1) Steady red: Brake lights
2) Blinking amber: Turn signals
3) Steady Green: Accellerator pressed down in vehicle
4) Blinking Green: Accellerator floored in vehicle
5) Steady Purple: Cell phone or loud stereo in use in vehicle
6) Blinking Purple: Open beer container in vehicle
7) Steady Blue: Unrestrained children in vehicle
8) Blinking Blue: seatbelts not fastened in vehicle
9) Steady Orange: Under 18 year old driver behind wheel
10) Blinking Orange: Under 18 year old driver + girlfriend engaged in sexual
relations in vehicle

Ted

 

This thread really angered the lamp gods. MAN, I had no idea y'all cared so
much.

I actually though the second question was more interesting. We have 3 big
rear seat LHS's, and my Mother in law has a BMW 740iL, which is the same
size and has a similar stretched rear seat compared to the basic 740. So
it's not a unique idea. It's just designed for grown-up use. Of course, I
paid $5000 and she paid $50,000. You can't say they don't depreciate,
that's for sure, but I thought the old LHS was universally regarded as
handsome, powerful, and popular. We got our first one while shopping for a
NEW intrepid/concorde, wound up buying the old used LHS for $7500. Then my
wife had concluded that since they don't make anything similar to replace
it, we'd get enough to last a while. When consumers make decisions like that
it might mean they missed an opportunity. I might get attached to any old
car but my wife doesn't.