info on limp-in mode

i have a 94 chrysler new yorker. it is in limp-in mode, i took it to
two dealerships both said it was the solenoid.. so i put a brand new
one in.. that did not fix it. ok, so i replaced the input & output
speed sensors, no fix.. so i replaced the transmission control relay,
no fix. well after reading all day and not getting any work done.. i've
come to my next try, the TCM, called the junk yard and they quoted me
$50.. not bad. someone did tell me to try that. i was wondering if any
one had any ideas or maybe you'd know something else.. the other odd
thing was... after trying all this i hooked it back up to get the codes
and it is still saying its the solenoid... (there is a brand new one in
there)???? thanks in advance for any help
~~audi~~

 

This is known as the 'shotgun' approach: Throw parts at it until maybe
it's fixed, or give up somewhere along the line and decide the car's a
piece of crap and sell it at a loss. It's a really dumb, expensive
approach to car repair.

What you need is proper, competent diagnosis and targeted repair.

 

Agreed. I recently had a problem with my trans. I found a CAA/AAA
approved shop which had a good reputation and IIRC are a member of the
Beter Busines Bureau. They read my computer for free. They had the car
for about a day, and must have put at least 3 hours into it. But the
bill was $205 for the solenoid pack, and $95 for labour. Add the taxes
and that was less than $350, and included a fluid and filter change
with the proper Chrysler Fluid (NOT Dexron III with Lubguard).

Have a look around. There are honest trans shops out there.

 

thanks.. that was my 1st try.. took it to 2 tranny shops (both with
good reputation). <i won't take any vehicle to a place unless i've
heard great things about them, usually all work is done by myelf or my
husband>... both shops said the computer was reading bad solenoid, and
they could do it for $400.. well i didn't really have $400 to shell out
at.. so we bought a brand new one, put it in.. computer is still
reading bad solenoid.. that doesn't make much sense to me, unless my
computer is screwed up, right?? my husband as "patient" as he is
throwing some tools when that didn't fix it..so i kindly told him,
better to have wasted $200 doing it ourselves then having wasted $400
at shop to do the same thing.. sorry but i guess i'm prideful when it
comes to working on my cars (maybe cuz i'm a chick) if i can do it
myself.. great.. i don't really trust other people. i don't really want
to pay labor for a shop to try all different things when its just
cheaper to do it yourself (if you can)... Daniel... i do think thats
may be my next step.. have some fun with slege hammers on a piece of
crap car...everyone i've read about having problems with this limp-in
mode has easily fixed it... thanks for the input any feedback
helps.. honestly if the comp is not reading the codes wrong... maybe
the solenoid was not correctly conneted.

 

Hi...

Not a mechanic, just an retired old electrical guy, so take my
suggestion for exactly what it's worth

Seeing you don't mind digging in and getting your hands dirty,
wonder if you thought of taking the connector off and closely
examining it. Look for corrosion, dirt, a bent pin, a wire
broken near the connector in such way that the wire inside could
be broken (from flexing) with the insulation still intact.

A good flashlight and perhaps a magnifying glass comes in
handy here. And for the wires at the bending points, try
bending them individually with your fingers, look for a
"soft" spot.

Might be worth trying before you perhaps needlessly put more
dollars into it.

Just my less than 2 cents

Take care.

Ken

 

This is a case where you absolutely need to have the right equipment.
You also have to be sure of what is wrong.

As the guy at my shop said to me when I tried to press him:

"Just because the computer reads Code 41 'bad solenoid' does not mean
that is the problem. The problem could easily be the solenoid, but it
could also be the wiring, or it could be a bad computer. Please let us
do a proper diagnosis so you wont have to come back later and have it
fixed again at additional expense."

Words to live by! and very convincing I might add.

In my case it was indeed the solenoid pack, and I must say the trans
has never worked better! It shifts faster and quiter, nice and tight.
I never owned the van from new, but I would say it is as good (or
better) than new.

Having said that, you do appear to have mechanical skills. In todays
computerized cars this is often not enough. Think computer! Your
transmission computer set a code for a bad solenoid pack, and has
switched into limp mode. If you change the solenoid pack, then do
nothing to the computer, then it will think that nothing has changed.
I do not believe that removing the power will clear the code (worth a
try maybe?). Use the correct tool to reset the computer and tell it
that all is, supposedly, OK now.

Chances are the shop that read the computer can use their diagnostic
tool to clear the tranmission computer codes. Then you can drive for a
while and see if limp mode returns. If is does not, then you guessed
correctly. If limp mode comes back, then you guessed wrong, and will
have more work to be done - either by you or by the shop.

Pride is all fine and good, but some battles are not worth fighting -
and there is no shame in that.

Keep us posted.

 

ken, new man... thanks so much.. a friend of mine did sugguest maybe
some wiring problems... i think thats the biggest pain in the butt..
*computers* and electrical mumbo jumbo... i believe they have minds
of their own..sometimes.hahaha. yes.. Newman after replacing the
solenoid, we took it to the shop to hook it up to the computer they
used their thingy to reset it... didn't fix it... my brother-in-law
reset the computer where he works.. and that's when it was still giving
he code... he seems to think that there's a separate solenoid for the
overdrive.. do you know anything about that??? thanks for the help

 

I'm not a tranny guy, but I can read a logic diagram:

From my '99 LH car FSM (42LE tranny)
The logic states (energized/unenergized) are given below for the various
conditions. X = energized, 0 = unenergized, M = modulated.
The 4 solenoids are labeled: LR/CC 24/LR UD OD (the order of the logic
state listings given for each state below). (LR = Low reverse, CC =
Convertere Clutch, 24 = 2-4 Clutch, UD = Underdrive, OD = Overdrive)

Park/Neutral - under 8 mph
X X 0 0

Neutral - over 8 mph
0 X 0 0

Reverse
0 0 0 0

Reverse Block - shift to reverse with speed over 8 mph
0 X 0 0

First Gear
X X 0 0

Second Gear
0 0 0 0

Second Gear - EMCC (Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch)
Mod 0 0 0

Direct Gear
0 X 0 X

Direct Gear - EMCC
Mod X 0 X

Direct Gear - cruise control on
X X 0 X

Overdrive
0 0 X X

Overdrive - EMCC
Mod 0 X X

Overdrive - cruise control on
X 0 X X

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Well I do admire a preson who gives it the ol' college try.

I am afraid that, other than my observations and experience from the
"cusotmer" side of the service counter, I do not have any direct
experience tinkering with a transmission. Now I am a brave and gutsy
kinda guy, but even I wont wrestle with a transmission. They are a
breed all their own, and new technology has NOT improved them from the
servicing point of view. I liken a good transmission mechanic today to
what a good carburator technician was 20 to 30 years ago. If you find
one that knows what he is doing, then they are worth their weight in
gold!

At some point you have to ask what your time is worth, and what the
inconveinience is costing you. If you have another vehicle to get you
around, then fine - put the sucker up on blocks and hack away at it
until it is fixed. If, however, you are like me - I NEED my van. I
have a family to haul around in it on a regular basis, and I cannot
have it down for more than a day or two. The inconveinience factor is
just way to high. Besides, if I "fix" something improperly and it
breaks, I am out of luck. If a shop fixes it and it breaks, that is a
no charge warranty repair! Cheap insurance for a repair like this,
IMHO.

Please keep posting to update us, as I am just a curious as you are
about what is wrong.

 

Reputable independent transmission shop?

 

When the car is switched on the trans computer goes through
a startup sequence that among other things tests the selonoids.

As Daniel said, your shotgunning. As electrical guy said, you need to
check the wiring harness and connectors. This should always be the
first thing done on any electrical fault in any case, it only takes a few
minutes. It is done by using the Chrysler transmission manual and
the wiring diagram in that manual, and an ohmmeter. The selonoids are
pins 60,59,20,19 at the TCM and I'm not going to tell you the pin #s
at the selonoid connector since you shouldn't be touching this stuff
without the proper manual. Go buy it, it's cheap. You run a continuity
test on the selonoid wires, if that tests out OK what most shops do
is just swap the TCM with a spare and see if the code goes away,
if not they assume the selonoid pack is bad. In your case since you
now know the selonoid pack is probably good, you either have a
continuity problem in wiring or the output driver transistor in the TCM has
failed for one of the selonoids.

If the TCM has failed you can get a replacement from any wrecker.
Make sure it comes out of exactly the same make and model and year
vehicle.

Ted

 

i think i'll try checking the wiring. i think my husband has an
ohmmeter at his shop, maybe i'll have him check that out... my
thoughts are either the solenoid is not put in right or the comp is
giving wrong codes or something... question: if the TCM has failed will
that affect in recieving wrong codes?? like my code is #43.. overdrive
solenoid, but i just put a brand new one in and reset the computer. i
did find a TCM at a junk yard for $50.. my husband lives less than a
mile from work.. so its been ok for him to drive everyday b/c he
doesn't have to go over 25 mph.. i on the otherhand have to drive on
the highway, so i drive our silverado... in a way i'm not rushing so
much to fix it... b/c we're getting around, but in a way i just want to
fix it so my husband can stop "crying" about not being able to drive
his truck.. i just feel bad for him..haha.. no really i do. i do have
the ASTG transmission manuel for my car, b/c the regular haynes manuel
says practically nothing about tranny's, well b/c there's so much into
them i guess.
Another reason i didn't have the tranny shop do the solenoid, was b/c
he said he was "pretty sure" that was the problem, and if that didn't
fix it we were out $400 for nothing.. better to be out $200 than $400..
while i did appriciate his honesty..i just couldn't put my self out
$400 at one time...by end of this mess i may get up to that much...
hopefully it'll end up fixed then sold.... or not fixed and junked...
you all are sooooo helpful thanks so much

 

yes this shop is independent... and i only brought it to them b/c i've
only heard but wonderful things about them.. how awesome they
are..trustworthy.. and such.. i won't bring my car to any shop without
refferences.. b/c i don't trust other people with my cars.

 

From what you have described and said was replaced (the complete solenoid
pack right?), the root cause of this problem would seem to be the wiring or
the connectors. Take the advice given and remove the connector down on the
transmission first, and make sure it is making good electrical connection.
A can of good electrical contact cleaner spray, a clean brush, and some fine
emery cloth to burnish the contacts if accessible would be my suggestion.
It also could be the connector on the other end in the engine compartment,
but the one on the transaxle seems more likely to be the culprit.

Bob

 

The suggestions for looking closely at a problem with the wiring and
especially a bad connection in the multi-pin plugs in the wiriing
harnesses should be taken seriously.

Here's my story :
One of my Intrepids from the mid to late 90's (it was a company car)
had this same problem. The car was under warranty and it was in and out
of the Chrysler Dealership on and off for weeks. They replaced piles
of parts and still the problem was there. Finally the Service Dept of
the lease company (GE Capital) got involved with Chrylser and told
enough was enough : keep the car and don't return it until the fix is
guaranteed. Since I was on a first name basis with about 75% of the
Service Dept at the Chrysler Dealership at that point, and I think the
pressure of the relationship between GE Capital and Chrysler Canada had
filtered down to the personnel at this Dealer, they took me into an
office to explain what their plan was. They introduced me to their
best, hot-shot Master Technician and told me that he was assigned 100%
to the car as a project. He wasn't going to work on anything but my
car until it was fixed. This was indeed a very bright guy - more than
a bit of a nerd and a nice guy to boot. He "interviewed" me for 30
minutes, asking all kinds of questions about when driving conditions
surrounding the problem, etc, etc.

ONE day later - a bit over 24hours after I left the car with him - he
called and said "it's fixed - you can come and get it". Well that was
about the 8th or 10th time I heard that before so I was leary and I
suggested that he keep the car for few days, drive it himself and make
sure. Without hesitation he said, 'No it's fixed. You won't have this
problem again, come and get it". And - he was right as it turned out.

The cause of the constantly repeating limp-in mode problem : one
slightly corroded pin in one of the larger connectors in the wiring
harness. They replaced the whole harness sub-assembly and that truly
was the end of it.

Phil