In-the-tank fuel pumps cause death and destruction

What beetle had gravity feed? Every one I ever saw/owned/worked on
needed the fuel pump as the tank was at about the same level as the
carb and roughly 8 feet ahead of it. A front mounted pump pushing the
fuel would have reduced the tendancy for the system to vapour lock,
which my '49 did all too regularly in warm weather (and there was
seldom anything OTHER than warm weather in Zambia) running on the
optimistically 70 something octane regular leaded fuel available in
the early seventies.

Now a Model "T" ford was gravity feed. I believe the model "A" was
too. My 1928 Chevy National had a pump that drew the fuel from the
rear mounted tank by engine vacuum, and then fed it from the #48 juice
can sized pump reservoir to the carb by gravity.

The early Fords would occaisionally run out of gas going up a hill, so
you needed to BACK up steep hills. It also helped that reverse was
geared lower than 1st.

 

The intank fuel pumps I've worked on are totally wet, with fuel
flowing right through the motor.

And none of the fuel pumps I've worked on were gear pumps.

 

Most of the LHS's pump are removed thru the trunk without disassembling the
tank, i think the newer ones have the drain on the tanks, but not sure. and
we were talking about Trucks, i was posting on that...

 

WAAAAAAAAA!!!!! WAAAAAAA!!!!
STUpid cry babies!



A Google search found two serious fires, happening on the same day, one
fire causing death and the other perhaps a million dollars damage as a
result of servicing in-the-tank fuel pumps. Had these fuel pumps been
placed externally, as the usual and proven practice for more than 70 years,
these accidents would have been prevented. Legislation is badly needed to
address this serious design deficiency as professional mechanics as well as
amateurs are exposed to deadly danger by a totally unnecessary fuel system
configuration. In the meantime, lawyers should file a class action as all
manufacturers are currently using dangerous in-tank pumps and millions of
cars are affected. This suit is worth billions and billions. At the very
least, all cars should be retrofitted with new tanks and external pumps by
mechanics wearing fire suits and guarded by fire crews. The changeover
will save hundreds of lives and much damages while costing much deserved
hundreds of millions of dollars of expense to the responsible capitalist
titans, all of whom are totally devoid of industrial ethics.

News Story One:

Thursday, October 28, 2004 · Last updated 4:11 a.m. PT

Inhalation of toxins blamed for Des Moines fire death

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

DES MOINES, Wash. -- A man who died in a garage fire after gasoline spilled
out of a truck that was being repaired died partly from inhaling toxic
fumes, investigators said.

David E. Russ, 61, identified Wednesday as the dead man, also had burns on
more than 90 percent of his body, investigators in the King County medical
examiner's office said.

Russ and two other men was trying to replace the fuel pump on a pickup
truck Monday when the leaking fuel caught fire as the trio tried to push
the truck out of a detached garage.

All three ran outside, but Russ went back in and was trapped when the roof
collapsed, Fire Battalion Chief Victor Pennington said.

News Story Two:

Local auto dealership heavily damaged in fire
By Virgil Cochran
Lamar Daily News


Thursday, October 28, 2004 -


Tri-County Ford on Highway 50-287 north of Lamar was severely damaged by a
midmorning fire yesterday, but the manager Jeff Travis said the business
will be up and running again in just a few days.

Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed an
electrical short, which triggered the blaze.

It rapidly engulfed the shop area of the building, but everyone managed to
get out safely, Travis said.

Tri-County will have temporary office trailers set up on the lot by next
week, Travis said, and will be open for sales of new and used vehicles. In
the meantime, all automobiles for sale will remain on the lot, and
customers are welcome to drop by and shop, and even negotiate deals. But
the business won't be able to finalize deals until the temporary offices
are set up and computer equipment is up and running again next week.

Travis said Tri-County is also negotiating for temporary headquarters for
its mechanic shops, but it may be a few more days before the shop functions
of the business are up and running.

Eight cars in the service area were destroyed and the service garage itself
was heavily damaged if not totally destroyed, but Rosencrans said damage to
the office and parts storage area was limited to mostly smoke and water
damage.

Local firefighters were called to the scene about 10:40 a.m. yesterday, and
the Prowers Rural Fire Department was assisted by the Lamar, Wiley, and
Holly Fire Departments.

As for the existing building, Travis said the business was well insured and
that he would meet with insurance adjusters sometime today.

 

If I recall correctly quite a few with the gas heaters used that
system for the heaters. But I wouldn't doubt but that there's
regional differences & my memory may be cloudy as virtually all
original beetle's in this area have returned to mother nature many
many years ago.

 

The gas heaters were mounted above the fuel tank and had their own electric
fuel pump.
H

 

Not true. For example, the Chrysler LH vehicles have an access panel in
the trunk floor that allows the fuel pump module to be pulled out the
top of the tank. Niether draining the tank nor removing the tank is
required. However, the intelligence not to do something idiotic like use
an open-bulb drop light, smoke, or strike a match while working on it is
required. Something that seems beyond the capability of entirely too
many people these days....


And yes, most PICKUP TRUCKS with electric in-tank pumps do require
dropping the tank or removing the bed from the chassis... however this
article doesn't say whether it was an in-tank pump or a 1965 pickup with
a conventional fuel pump. If you are stupid in replacing an old-style
fuel pump, you can wind up with a garage full of fuel just as easily as
you can if you're stupid with an in-tank pump. The key word is STUPID...

 

Nomen Nescio wrote:
[SNIP]

[SNIP]

Meet Nomen Nescio folks, veteran usenet troll. He's been around since
at least 2001, just about everywhere.

http://tinyurl.com/48axk


And for what it's worth Nomen, both incidents you cite could have
happened with outboard fuel pumps. Regardless of whether the pump is
inside or outside of the fuel tank, there is still a pressurized fuel
rail that must be dealt with, and care must be taken whenever you're
dealing with fuel to have the work area well veintilated and to avoid
sparks or other situations that could ignite the fuel.

In truth, the only way to make fuel pumps perfectly idiot-safe is to ban
the use of flammable materials. Unfortunately, the combustible engine
can't work without that type of fuel. Even fuel cells use Hydrogen...
can you say, Hindenburgh?

 

Not only that, but in all modern cars with the epa-mandated evap
collection system, if there is a leak detected by a loss in tank
pressure, an idiot lamp will come on in the dash, letting you know that
something is wrong. Same is true if you drive away from the gas station
without putting your gas cap on tight... after about 35 miles or so, the
ECM will see that as a leak in the system, and an SES lamp will come on.

And you DO get your car checked out when you have an indication that
something is wrong... right?

 

Well, nearly every occurrence of an airbag deployment that I've heard of
is unintended... most people, unless they intend to commit suicide or
ditch a car and fraudulently claim insurance, do not intend to crash and
trigger the airbags.

However, there have been a couple of *unwarranted* airbag deployments
that I've heard of.

 

Guess the two that I'd seen on had identical aftermarket units put on
then. Luckily I've not "had the pleasure" of working on an old Beetle
in over 15 years.

 

I try to keep gas in my fuel tank, mainly to avoid the inconvenience of
running out of gas. I guess I get the added benefit of not having my fuel
pump explode. It actually works out not too bad.

 

No, all gas heaters were mounted above the fuel tanks and had their
own small electric fuel pu to spray the fuel into the fire-box.
Basically a low presure fuel injector.

 

Actually some credible experts claim that the Hindenberg went up in
flames so quickly more because of the type of coatings on the envelope
than the hydrogen (after all, according to some, you have to have *just*
*the* *right* mixture of hydrogen and air to get conflagration). But
either way - you're right, we need to make our engines burn
non-flammable substances. 8^)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Jes make sure you've *always* got them hands at 9 and 3 o'clock in case
it does go off. 8^)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Don't forget Corvairs had gas heaters also.

 

It also increases the longetivity of your pump as the gas is it's cooling
system.
H

 

No..... The two that I had experience with had no electrical fuel
pump. Which is why I mentioned them.

 

My '64 Corvair that I had, the fuel line had a tee in it so the engine fuel
pump supplied both the heater and the engine.

 

Where were the heaters mounted?
H