Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers

I do, and I find that a minivan is a lot more useful in hauling their little
butts around. (or rather, my wife does since she drives it)

And I grew up in a family that ran station wagons until we were in
high school and could drive ourselves. And on top of that I happen to
own one. (a station wagon). It's not a daily driver, it's purpose is
a backup car in case the van craps out and I have it up on jackstands
for a couple days. My daily driver (right now) is an econobox, due to
the amount of miles I accumulate a week.

So pardon but I think I have a pretty good idea of what would happen
if an attempt was made to convince SUV (and minivan) owners to
go to station wagons.

Ted

 

You cannot substitute "styling" for interior leg and head room. You have to
go
back to the early 70's like a 73 T-Bird or a Old 98 before you can find a
sedan that could actually fit 4 adults comfortably. Sure, if automakers
started
producing such vehicles again, you might knock off a few SUVs that were
bought to haul adults around, but the people that bought SUV's for real
hauling aren't going to go to a wagon, and the people that bought them to
haul
families aren't going to go to a wagon either (although they would have
been
a lot smarter to have bought either a minivan or a full size van, IMHO)
and the posers that bought them to pretend they are offroaders in the
city aren't going to go to a sedan either.

Where station wagons shine is if you have ONE driver that regularly
has a need of hauling small to mid size delivery. For example the
admin that needs to drive a computer across town, the wife that
likes going to the rummage sales on the weekend, the janitor
who has to haul cleaning supplies to a building, the construction
foreman who goes to a couple job sites, and a smattering
of service guys who don't need to carry ladders or large tools.

Ted

 

Well, chaps, that's a timely note (about the Monaro). In last week's Sunday
Times, the UK's biggest selling quality Sunday paper, there was an item
about the Monaro and how it's going to become the Pontiac GTO.

Note that it was described as being of "old design, a relative of the Omega
saloon which disappeared from the price lists earlier this year...coming to
Britain [as] Vauxhall as a by-product of the decision to launch it in the
US...

"...GM sought a modern equivalent of its GTO and found this potent coupe
lurking at its Australian outpost. The Vauxhall Monaro will have the same
specs as the new GTO...5.7 litre engine V8... and six-speed manual gearbox
from the Chevrolet Corvette it is loud and fast (0 - 60 mph in 5.5 sec), yet
more civilised than its American predecessor, the Pontiac Firebird. At
present there is nothing quite like the Monaro available in Britain."

Price is GBP 32K for the 360 bhp LSI. The 320 bhp CV8 will cost about GBP
28 000.

"Coupes of equivalent size and performance are much more expensive --
....Merc CL and forthcoming BMW 6...Vauxhall led the UK car market with the
Corsa [note: a small car]. Whether it has raised its reputation enough to
sell a GPB 30K high-performance model remains to be seen."

Just in case you don't all know, Vauxhall is GM's brand. I wonder if it
will be launched on the Continent (as an Opel).

I guess the Monaro will sit in a separate market niche as Saab is supposed
to be up-market from Vauxhall/Opel. Saab cars are not that big though. The
most powerful engine is a 2.3 l turbo achieving 220 or 250 hp.


An additional point is in connection with criticisms elsewhere of designs
being 'pinched'. The big producers are global and would be foolish not to
pick designs from all over the place. That said, I am not sure that the US
companies 'pinch' enough from their overseas affiliates.


DAS

 

I did no such bitching. Re-read my post. There are quote marks around
the comments you are talking about - as in, that is what the liberals
would say if attempts were made to keep bad drivers off the roads
(paraphrasing the arguments they have made in the past about why
rewarding irresponsible people for pumping out babies, i.e., the career
welfare moms, had to continue). Some of your other comments in this
thread also make no sense in regards to anything I posted - maybe due to
the same mis-reading of what I posted.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

You need another product from the DC Group:

http://www.mercedes-benz.com/omb/d/ecars/unimog/u3000u4000.htm

DAS
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Show me some proof that my "gross generalization" is wrong.

It may surprise you to learn that I've driven just about every SUV on
the market as of a year or two ago, on a test track no less. Are you
going to persist in calling me clueless with no proof, or are you going
to put up or shut up?

nate

 

Subaru, Audi, VW, Volvo all offer all wheel drive wagons with good
safety ratings. Besides, I have lived in several areas where a
significant amount of annual snowfall was a normal occurrance and never
felt unsafe even in a regular FWD compact so long as I had good tires.


It's probably telling that when working up in the UP I made the
observation that the only people driving trucks and/or SUVs were either
engineers testing same or else people towing snowmobile trailers. Most
of the locals just drove cheap old econobeaters.

nate

 

That's not the fault of "passenger cars" per se, it's the fault of CAFE
which has killed the full sized car as we once knew it.

I don't particularly feel that 4x4 is a requirement (see previous post)

nate

 

The Mog's a great off roader, I've ridden in them during my years as a
cadet, the army can drive them all over the landscape where a Landrover or
other SUV cannot go.

yet even they can become civilised. I've seen them on lowered suspensions
with a campervan body on the back. even with the lowering they can outdo
SUVs.

rhys

 

The Commadore is a very nice car to drive, My mother, (A farmer) drives a V6
3.8L '89 commadore sedan, It will go up steep hills without shifting down,
and cruises in overdrive at 100Kmh (60Mph) at 2500 rpm.
I've never actually put it through it's paces properly, most cars I drive I
take to a deserted flat stretch of road 4 or so Km long and floor them. my
2L nissan could do 130Kmh before complaining, and could head up the highway
comfortably in cruise control at 120. My Isuzu Bighorn 2.8 Diesel could
manage 145Kmh and runs up the motorway at 140.
I floored my mums commodore and passed 180 and still accellerating when I
had to brake for a corner. so theres power to spare.
The police use 3.8 holdens as chase cars and highway patrol, with an
aftermarket ECU chip giving max speeds in the 250Kmh range.

Think of what a 5.7L V6 could do. amd the monaro body is lighter than the
'89 Commodores. more power, less weight, more tire grip (265/30R18 on the
monaro, 195/70R15 on the Commadore.) adds up to a pretty damn potent
vehicle.

rhys

 

Suyre, because tax rates were something like 90% at the upper end. Now that
they're 37%, you're going to lose revenue by cutting them, as Bush has done.

 

Your opinion is not fact.

You can join Ann Coulter and advocate killing them, I guess.

 

Where are the WMD? Facts, please.

 

No. Look at the scientific literature, look at IPCC, look at NASA, look at
NOAA, look at EPA, look at National Academy of Sciences.

As I said, it's as settled as atoms, gravity, relativity, evolution, etc.

 

Like cutting off a finger is "virtually indistinguishable" from not, compared
to getting your head cut off, I guess.

 

Which lots of cars and minivans offer.

 

Dodge Intrepid, Chrysler Concorde -- plenty of room for 5 adults. Ditto Ford
Crown Vic, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car, Cadillacl deVille, Buick
Park Avenue/LeSabre, Pontiac Bonneville, Toyota Avalon, Mercedes S-class, BMW
7-series, Jaguar XJ-series, Audi 8-series, Volvo 80-series, ...

 

Ditto Mercedes and BMW. Also awd minivans -- Dodge, Chysler, and Toyota.

 

But if the Monaro is an older design, won't the road-holding and general
feel be not as good as a more modern design? Straight-line performance
isn't everything.

Am surprised that a 2-litre car (your Nissan) only manages 130 km/h before
"complaining". I would expect 160 AT LEAST, even on a 4 km stretch.


DAS
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Much like ford's I6. The 250cid 6 started life in the USA but the Aussies
took on it's development. Slowly over the years less and less was common
with the original US engine. (up through the 1970s various aussie parts
are interchangable, including the cross-flow cylinder heads) I don't
know if they ever went to a clean sheet and started over, but what they
have now goes up to a twin turbo overhead cam I6. In either case it's the
evolution of the 170-200-250 family that was never developed in the USA.