Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers

Amen, Atlanta is full of these hoodlums.

I see wannabe ganstas with small cars with loud

 

I see you snipped out the actual quote that mattered. Nice misdirection.

Actually, it is fairly simple. A vehicle with a lower CG will handle
more predictably to the average driver than one with a high CG, as there
will be less dramatic weight-shift responses to various driver inputs.

It's a perfectly valid and equitable comparison. Every time I hear
someone bitch that they spend $(something large) for a SUV because they
wanted to be safe, I wonder why they didn't spend the same money for a
car that would be safer.

It's fairly well established that cost is actually a pretty good metric
of vehicle safety - which makes sense. A more expensive vehicle will
generally have had more care spent in its engineering and therefore will
be safer for its occupants. It's also fairly well established that
price point for price point, cars are generally *safer* for their
occupants than SUVs. I believe there was an actual formal study on this
topic posted here (RAD) a while back.

Of course not. But you do it anyway.

It is rare for an SUV to be statistically safer in anything but multiple
vehicle crashes than a similarly priced car. If you're going to argue
with that statement, better bring on some facts.

What truth is that? That you bought an SUV to be "safe?" That's not
"truth," that's you not being well informed.

If you'd be so kind as to present some facts, I'd be willing to discuss
them with you.

Such as...? The only valid answer to that question that I can think of
would be the ability to tow a heavy trailer, but you haven't mentioned
that yet, so I'm guessing that that is not the reason. "I just liked
it" would be a far more reasonable justification. In my mind, that's
actually a perfectly valid reason, I just can't stand the intellectual
dishonesty you keep displaying.

That was my point. You're driving a compromised vehicle, yet claiming
you bought it for safety.

Or Baja racing, or simple hard trail running. Wheel articulation is
important for all of these types of off roading.

LOL! I'd love to see what you consider "High G."

Keep in mind that most drivers never use more than 30% of their
vehicle's capabilities on the road, so even a poor handling vehicle may
be deemed acceptable by an unskilled driver.

Must have had a fairly shitty minivan, then.

The fact that you're comparing the handling of your vehicle to a 40 year
old compact with a very heavy engine and live rear axle just illustrates
my point. However, you may be surprised at what you can do with that
chassis with good tires and fat sway bars. Now I'm not going to try to
pretend that it will keep up with a good modern car through the twisties
(like you do with your SUV) but it ain't entirely the pig you think it
to be. But if you're challenging me to a race, why don't you pick on my
Scirocco or GTI...

nate

 

No misdirection at all Nate. Just asking you to explain yet another
silly claim.

I'm not surprised that you continue to avoid the question though.

Again, very simplistic since you ignore a number of other critical
compnents such as suspension geometry, tire siz and composition,
supplemental stability control systems, drive system, weight bias,
etc. etc.

Who has been bitching about price in this discussion? Certainly not
me.

Talk about misdirection.

So using your "logic" there are SUVs that are safer than many cars.

Good job! You bought yourself a clue!

Ah, the ole "I know you are but what am I?" retort. Sad.

Where have I made a broad generalization in this thread Nate? Please
quote. Thanks.

(hint: I haven't)

Ah, there you go again back pedaling from your prior claim and
including price as a qualifier.

Changing the discussion doesn't make your prior claims any less
ridiculous Nate and is very poor form.

For shame!

Please find one of the big kids at school and have them help you with
your reading comprehension. You'll look like less of an idiot if you
get some help.

Since you apparently aren't familiar with all of the SUV offerings out
there, especially the type that I bought because I was concerned about
my safety and my family's safety, you have no way of determining what
the truth is.

Instead you continue to flail about making enormous assumptions.

At least you're consistent.

Again, have someone help you with reading comprehension Nate. You're
apparently woefully under-equipped to discuss this subject.

"Intelectual dishonesty"? ROTFLMAO!

Because you assume that my SUV isn't safer than many cars and
outhandles many cars I'm "intellectually dishonest"? Man, you're a
piece of work.

I bought my SUV for its ability to tow, the ability to get to remote
places off-road, the ability to not have to chain up when the snow
flies, the ability to haul a ton of crap when we go away, because it's
a blast to drive, etc. etc.

The same reasons that many folks make the decision to buy an SUV.

Uh, where did I claim that I made my decision solely based upon
safety? Quote please.

You've already gotten yourself into trouble a few times by misquoting
and/or reading too much into what people have written. Poor form Nate.

Yes. So why do you assume that a vehicle with good wheel articulation,
say something that is very competitve in something like Paris-Dakar,
has poor high speed handling?

See my reply at the end of the previous message Nate. Just bring your
helmet. I'll take care of the rest.

I understand your point.

Are you implying that I'm an unskilled driver and/or that I don't use
more than 30% of my vehicles' capabilites on the road because I know
that my SUV out handles many cars and you can't come to terms with
that fact?

Minivans by defintion are pretty shitty.

The last one that I had was "higher end" I belive, a Dodge Grand
Caravan AWD with the bigger engine.

Still afraid to answer the question, eh Nate?

My bad. I didn't mean to imply that I was comparing my SUV to your old
car.

I meant it like this:

You claim that you're a "driving enthusiast" and that I can't be a
"driving enthusiast" because of the facts surrounding the handling
capabilities/safety of my SUV.

If you're a "driving enthusiast" I would expect that you would enjoy a
day at the track. Not for a head-to-head comparison, but simply to
enjoy driving.

See above. If you want to do some racing with someone who you
apparently assume isn't a "driving enthusiast" I'm always game for a
little friendly competition.

I'll even let you pick whether I drive the SUV or what I usually play
around in on the track.

It's your choice.

http://home.pacbell.net/psf0/tow.jpg

(just give me some advanced warning so I can get the bike racks off of
the SUV if that's your choice)

pete fagerlin

::Revolutionary! Evolutionary! Yet so retro!
::www.yestubes.com

 

Supermarket Warriors...
i use mine to tow tons of metal around to spread on the farm tracks, loads
of timber that would bust an ecnonboxes sustpension, even if it fitted int
he back, and heavy metal SCUBA cylinders and lead weights. an entire clubs
collection, totalling over 600 Kg of tanks and weights made a neglegible
difference in fuel consumption.

rhys

 

Gee - imagine that. Conservatives opposing the raising of taxes. How
unusual! Have you ever heard of such a thing!? To quote Mel Brooks:
"Wooof!".

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

And how do you explain your MB lloyd?

 

Like this?

http://www.snopes.com/photos/lumber.asp

 

I don't think so. You'd call pratically everything on this page
"right-wing-something-or-the-other" I am sure:

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/quotes/wisdom.html
I think the first one speaks against a great number of things from the
democrat party in the last oh 70 years:

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will
herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin

And if not that, I am sure these founding father quotes would really
get your panties in a bunch:

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/quotes/arms.html

Having read your writings over the years, as well as learned a fair
amount about the "founding fathers" I see no agreement.

Oh, and as far as JFK is concerned, funny how if you listen to JFK's
speeches (recorded) keeping current views in mind, his talking about using
tax cuts to stimulate the economy, etc etc you'd think he was a
republican.....

 

Or as someone submitted to the Atlanta Tourism Board a few years ago
when they ran a contest for a good toursim slogan: "Atlanta: An island
of culture floating in a sea of rednecks." Needless to say - that was
not selected as the winning slogan. 8^)

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Because the culture part wasn't true!


Matt

 

Atlanta is done. It is a slimy as any large city in the country.Most of
the producers have fled to the burbs, leaving the poor and gangs.

 

CR's overall mileage for the Excursion was 10 mpg. The 150 mile trip mileage was
12. This was a V-10 Gas model. The diesel would do much better.

Ed

 

The heavy duty Suburban, Excursion, and H2 fall into the heavy duty category and
don't ahve mileage listings.

Ed

 

No, I can't see it. This is the sort of drivel the anti-SUV crowd routinely repeats.
Continulaly repeating an opinion does not make it a fact. PROVE IT!

Ed

 

Very nice links, I'll save them for sure. Thank you.

 

They're heavier and don't handle as well. The conclusion should be obvious.

I'm actually repressing the urge to launch into an Aunt Judy-esque rant
at this point. This frightens me. Why are concepts so obvious to
anyone with any grasp of physics or driving dynamics apparently so
obscure to the general public?

*bangs head on desk*

nate

 

Back when station wagons were popular, there were no SUV's (at least not

You don't have a family, do you. (not a question) -Dave

 

Hmmm... better fuel economy, better performance and handling, easier to
load sproggen into and out of back seat and stuff in and out of the
cargo area... yeah, we screwed ourselves with CAFE didn't we. Oh well,
there's always Audi.

I still see old, square full size GM wagons on the road occasionally,
usually as taxis. Surely if SUVs were better suited to such usage,
they'd be used by taxi companies... but all the newer ones are Crown
Vics for the most part...

Remember the days when you could buy a wagon and expect to haul plywood
and tow a trailer with it?

nate

 

Approximately 10/21/03 18:24, Nate Nagel uttered for posterity:

When the facts are not first correct, the conclusions drawn can come only
from one's rectum.

Harder please.