how to change starter in LHS?

subject says all... friend has Concorde that has had the drivetrain,
suspension, and wheels from a wrecked LHS installed (along with the
interior and nose - I guess the PO, who was a body shop owner, got real
bored one day.)

Anyway... the starter has been intermittent for a while, it would take a
couple wiggles of the key to get it to go. He'd bought a used
replacement starter but never installed it as the car never completely
quit. Then today while I was over at his house working on something
else the bendix stuck into the flywheel so he decided it was about that
time. Well after fighting with that #@$%^%^& cable connection - what
would have been so wrong with leaving another inch or so slack in the
cable so that it would be easier to deal with? And how is it possible
that something less than 10 years old could be so corroded? - I
discovered that it was literally impossible to remove the starter. On
one side it was constrained by the catalytic converter and on the other
some big heavy bracket for the engine mount. We swapped places again
(by this time we were working on each other's cars, as one of us would
get frustrated with the starter we'd switch off) and he crawled under
there with a big huge pry bar. I don't want to know what happened but
he tossed the starter out from under the car. (it landed on my foot, of
course, but that's not really relevant.) However, it seems that
installing the new one is going to be just as problematic, involving
either bending the cat out of the way or else jacking up the engine and
removing the engine mount bracket, if it is even possible to do so. Any
tips from anyone who's BTDT? The car is sitting in his driveway
disassembled, as it got real damn cold just about the time the big shiny
thing in the sky headed west and left.

thanks...

nate

 

....except year and engine.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Now, Bill, if you were really smart, you'd remember LHS's don't have any
engine options.

 

Don't know and 3.5.

nate

 

In my best Johnny Carson voice: "I did not know that!"

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Nowadays, it isn't uncommon to have to remove a major component such as an
engine mount to do some types of work on cars, but that is a moot point
from my perspective.

I couldn't see myself hanging around anybody prone to infantile temper
tantrums in which they throw things such as parts and tools....especially
if they hit me!!!!

I once worked next to a guy who started throwing things when a job wasn't
going his way......

I calmly put my tools away, locked my toolbox, then backed my truck into my
stall and started loading my tools.

When the Service Manager came over to ask what was going on, I told him I
could not work next to somebody who might, someday, hit me with a wrench or
an alternator.

He told me to leave my tools where they were, and he went to the next stall
and told the guy that he had had his last temper tantrum in that particular
dealership, and that his check would be waiting once he had his tools all
loaded up.

 

maybe it's just me, but I am not a big fan of any design that requires
major disassembly to replace something like a starter, alternator, or
water pump which will likely need to be replaced at some point during
the vehicle's lifetime. I guess I'm just comparing and contrasting to
all of my personal vehicles where a starter could be easily replaced
simply by removing 2 or 3 bolts and 1 or 2 electrical connections
(well, three on a Ch*vy...) only other design I've seen that I
considered that asinine was the location of the water pump on my
Porsche 944 (requires R&R of the timing belt to get to it, as it is
driven off the TB)

In this case it looks like the whole mess could have been made a lot
more service friendly simply by moving the cat 1/2" or so toward the
outside of the car, which makes it that much more frustrating. I was
just kind of hoping there was a trick I was missing, like remove these
two bolts and jack in such and such a place and suddenly it will all
fit...

Actually it wasn't like that, he just stuck his hand out from under the
car and dropped the starter, not realizing that my foot was occupying
the same real estate... which reminds me, I was going to order a pair
of steel toes today anyway...

nate

 

Nate,

I replaced the starter solenoid contacts on my brother-in-law's '99? LHS
last summer. I managed to get the starter out without removing the exhaust.
It took a bit of "coercing", but it did come out when I rotated it just
right and pushed the exhaust to give another 1/4" or so. You never said
what year you were working on so it may be slightly different.

Good luck

Bob

 

If I did that, I would never get anything done. I usually take a break,
sometimes for days, and then get back to work. Eventually I figure out how
to fix the problem.

 

Isn't the timing belt something that 'will likely need to be replaced
at some point during the vehicle's lifetime'?.. Considering that the
interval is 45k miles for the 944, I'd just replace the water pump
either every time or every other time I did the timing belt.

I don't do a timing belt without changing the timing belt driven water
pump.

I like the idea of water pump driven off timing belt a whole lot
better than a 2.2/2.5 Chrysler motor mount bolt going into the cooling
system jacket. That's about a stupid design.

Look where the GM Northstar engine starters are.. under the intake.

Jim

 

And that's what most conscientious 944 owners do, along with replacing
the balance shaft belts and associated tensioners.

absolutely. I guess my point was, on a "normal" car a bad water pump -
even if it seizes up solid - doesn't have any other consequences except
maybe the alternator will stop working. There's no associated
possibility of major engine damage (unless you're completely oblivious
to the dashboard.) In a 944, if you get a water pump that has a
defective bearing, say, you get to tear the whole front of the engine
down AGAIN to fix it, or risk trashing the head.

Well, I won't attempt to argue that either one of those desigs are the
way I would have done it either...

nate

 

I imagine JP can do anything he sets his mind to , with the right tools....

hope the new one goes in easier than the old one came out

 

Of course there were "first generation" LHSes with the iron 3.5 and
"second generation" LHSes with the aluminum 3.5. Don't know if that
makes any difference with accessing the starter, but I'm guessing it
DOES because it was perfectly simple (although tight) to change the
starter on my wifes first-gen Vision (identical to a first-gen LHS).
This must be a second-gen.

 

How can one tell the difference? I only remember ever seeing one LHS,
so I am guessing that this is a second-gen and that I just don't
remember the first.

nate

 

The first-gen has a rounded "notchback" profile. The second-gen has the
"gaping maw" or "furnace grate" grille with projector headlamps. Its
name was changed to "Concorde LXi" after the first year or so of production.