How many jobs depend on the Detroit Three?

Funding and literacy are only loosely connected. The USA spends the highest
per pupil, yet we are ranked #10 for literacy. It takes high standards and
hard work by the three main components of education. The teacher, the
parents, the students.

Too many parents warehouse their kids in day care centers rather that spend
time checking on their education, helping at school, and too many teachers
are more interested in their pension, not to mention that strict discipline
is not allowed and the kids just want to take the easy way out to get by.

Reward the great teachers, dump the crappy ones, allow some discipline,
demand A's and B's, not lower the passing grade five points.

 

That is because many of those new drugs and procedures can not pass muster
with the FDA. They, in essence, are "tested" on socialist healthcare
patients like those in Canada, before they can earn approval of the FDA.
Still others never earn approval of the FDA.

The fact is over 70% of all the drugs developed around the world are
developed IN the US, even those of foreign owned drug companies. Seven of
the top ten hospitals in the world are in the US. That should tell you WHY
we should not want a government healthcare system'

If you think YOU do you were never in the military and if you were, you were
never in a VA hospital ;(

The boys at the Frazier institute would tend to disagree. The found
Hip replacements median total wait time (gp referral to treatment) was
20.7 weeks. You also have a waiting time of 4.6 weeks for medical
oncology and 5.8 weeks for radiation oncologists. Neurosurgery waiting
lists run 31.7 weeks. Actual wait times exceeded clinically "reasonable"
times in 81% of the comparisons.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/66d2ze

Nope. Means there is more use of older generics which means (in the
case of heart failure for instance) higher levels of angina, higher
disability, lower quality of life.

Which, of course, is a completely different kettle of fish from
MEDICAL quality of life which looks at aspects of a person's life
specific to whatever disease we are talking about.

****The price controls and ensuing savings

Emphasis mine.


Which goes to make my point since the savings was higher in the US
(47% savings in the US vs 29%).
I never said that individual ones weren't different, just that overall
they cost more in Canada. They also cost more to the system since the
ones that tend to be higher are also those that tend to be used more.

Frazier notes months long waits for for the above, with the longest
for US. They have access to many, but not used the same.

That is what Canadians like to believe.

No. Subsidized in this context means that much of the cost of a good
or service is paid for by someone other than the person using the
service in a way that hides the true costs from the user. We subsidize
by having the employer pay much of the costs. You subsidize by splitting
the subsidy more evenly between the government and the employer. No
perjorative meaning here, just simple economics.

Finally something we agree on. I would add not a real pertinent
statement either.

Pretty much my point.

Which means also that you can't go to another province and get
treatment paid for easily..[/QUOTE]

 

It appears to me you answered your own question. I was educated by my
parent during the depression, we were not allowed to go to school in
southern Georgia back then

 

The same things other parents do, check their homework, look at their report
cards and HELP you kids learn.

Hell my on grand son has a daughter who just turned three in September. She
knows how and when to go to the bathroom, knows the colors, knows how to
hold a pencil and can write more than half the letters in the alphabet,
knows her right hand from the left and car ride a two wheel bicycle.

Two of my daughters are teachers, a first grade teacher friend told me she
has kids that have been in school for three mounts and can not do as well.
Why? Her parents and I spend time TEACHING her. Kida that age have a
brain like a sponge, they can lean whatever you teach them if you take the
time to do so.

 

Sounds great but the teachers are not permitted to do that by the system

 

---------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frasier_Institute

The Fraser Institute is conservative and libertarian think tank based in
Canada that espouses free market principles. Its stated mandate is to
advocate for freedom and competitive markets.

It generally opposes public policy solutions based on government
spending, taxes, deficits, and regulation. Some of the public policy
stands taken by the Institute include: greater free trade throughout the
world, privatization of various government services, the freedom to own
and acquire firearms without controls, marijuana legalization,
competition in primary schooling, and greater private sector involvement
in the delivery of healthcare insurance and services.
---------------

---------------
WAITING YOUR TURN 17th EDITION
Hospital Waiting Lists In Canada (2007)

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/commerce.web/product_files/wyt2007rev2.pdf
---------------

Ontario represents 36% (12 million) of Canada's total population (33
million), so looking at Ontario's health care performance is
representative of 1 out of every 3 Canadians.

According to the above Fraser Institute document, the first segment of
waiting: between referral by general practitioner
and visit to a specialist for consultation in Ontario in 2007 was 7.6
weeks across an average of 12 medical specialties. The second segment
of waiting: between the specialist’s decision that treatment is required
and treatment in Ontario was 7.3 weeks. Therefore in Ontario, the
average time between referral to a specialist and eventual treatment was
14.9 weeks.

Note that there is high variablity based on speciality. As one would
hope, the total wait time for ELECTIVE cardiac surgery (Canadian
average) was 8.4 weeks, for radiation oncology was 5.7 weeks, medical
oncology 4.2 weeks. The longest wait times was for othopedic surgery
(38 weeks) and neurosurgery (27 weeks).

My indirect personal experience with orthopedic surgery is that the
people that eventually undergo elective orthopedic surgery aren't
bothered by the wait time, and indeed they need coaxing and convincing
to begin the process to see a specialist in the first place. Note that
accident cases where a hip is broken almost always requires surgery with
a few days of the accident, so don't get any ideas that those patients
are waiting 38 weeks for their treatment. The same is true of emergent
cardiac care.

I don't know why neurosurgery has 27 weeks, except that again it's
probably not a life-threatening situation, and perhaps if it's a brain
cancer then maybe brain cancers are slow growing. You might also need
lots of pre-surgical planning and tests for brain surgery.

The report details that the time between seeing a specialist and being
treated in Ontario in 2007 was 16.9 weeks for orthopaedic surgery, 2.8
weeks for elective cardiovascular surgery, and 7.7 weeks for
ophthalmology procedures. The wait to see an orthopaedic specialist was
12.0 weeks and the wait to receive hip or knee surgery was 20.0 weeks.
The median waiting times for angiography / angioplasty was 3 weeks, and
for elective cardiac bypass surgery was 2.5 weeks.

The report says this about wait times in other countries:

------------------------
Moreover, academic studies of waiting time have found that Canadians
wait longer than Americans, Germans, and Swedes (sometimes) for cardiac
care, although not as long as New Zealanders or the British.
-------------------------

But no details about how much longer (days? weeks?). Further into the
report, some details about the above statement indicate that it was
based on data from the early 1990's. There seems to be absolutely no
recent US data in that report to make a US - Canada comparison.

The tone of the report is definately slanted towards portraying the data
in a negative light, even though in many cases the wait times have been
reduced from recent years. The report relies heavily on making
conclusions on aggregate Canadian data, where some provinces (with
relatively low population) tend to skew the wait-time results upward.

So, can anyone identify US wait-time studies?

 

That's what needed to be said. There's an ever-growing socialist
mind-set that as long as anyone is better off than someone else, that's
bad, and "good" means everyone is equal, even if everyone is extremely
miserable, the important thing is that every one is the same. IOW, the
mind set continues, having a very good average standard of living with
some better off than others is not acceptable. Better that all
incentive for people bettering themselves and their families
individually be destroyed so that everyone can be equal.

The U.S. is lagging all or most all countries in that sentiment, but
unfortunately we are traveling down that road at an ever-increasing pace.

 

You have some good arguments and information. However, I don't trust
the numbers that show the percentages of GDP without seeing what went
into the calculations. Remember how everything was "absolutely proven"
about global warming by the UN and NASA (which by the way is still
cooking its data books on that as recently as last month). So again,
unless I see how the information was gathered and the calculations were
made to support such conclusions, I take them with a huge grain of salt.

 

The other countries have rationed care, so it's not surprising.

Look - you just got nailed on half truths (the one about no one being
able to negotiate on drug costs, and that private insurers look for ways
not to pay claims - ignoring the fact that a gov't-run plan not only
looks for ways to deny claims, but dictates such without recourse). So
I guess one more lie won't be too surprising. How do you consider that
our competing with non-free-market countries equates to our competing in
a free market?

 

Look up "socialism", then apply the concept to medicine.

 

Please explain why you can't compare tax rates of different countries.

 

WOW! I knew their system was bad, but I had no idea it was that bad.

 

Oh please! There are too many agendas, hidden and otherwise, for
anything that comes out of the UN to be believable. I've looked at
their indices on this type of thing. Total b.s.

 

So IOW, with the single possible exception of the legalization of m.j.,
they are clear thinkers .

You denigrate their evenhandedness, yet you present information from the
Canadian government to compare it's own medical system to that of the
U.S. that we are supposed to accept at face value.

 

Well you can but it doesn't really mean anything.
For instance, why would you compare tax rates between Canada and the US?
Canada has a balanced budget, the US does not.
Anyone can reduce their taxes by running huge deficits year after year.
We did it for a long time too.

Also, different countries provide different services for those taxes.
As you may have noticed, Canada provides universal health care as one of
those services where the US does not. So in this case, it would make
more sense to compare taxes + health care insurance premiums between the
two countries. Then you can come up with all of the other extras and, as
I said, it really becomes a complicated mish-mash and irrelevant.

The fact that some people have to have this explained to them makes me
wonder about the simplistic evaluation that some people use to formulate
their opinions.

 

And your the U.N. is a good source?

So if the Frasier Institute said that the stop sign down the street was
octagonally shaped and red, then it must be some other shape and color.
Why not dispute the stated facts with ones that you think are more
realistic.

 

Also look up "Medicaid".

 

I didn't need it explained - I just wanted to know *your* reasons. On
the other hand, you've got people who *do* the comparisons of other
aspects (of different countries) that you mentioned without looking at
such things as how much their people are paying in taxes to pay for it.
That's the other side of your "can't compare taxes of different
countries" coin. The right answer is that you look at all aspects
*including* taxes.

BTW - I highly agree with what you said about running deficits.

 

Ever heard of Medicaid?

 

Oops - sorry Kurt. Didn't meant to make it look like that was your quote.