had one ... but the doors fell off

My 1995 Town and Country has been a mechanical nightmare sice I bought
it - love the form factor, but it's a dud otherwise - replaced the front
steering rack 4 times now and all Chrysler can say is "sorry you're not
happy". Can't keep it in alignment - evey 6 months new front tires and
an alignment. I won't bother with the litany of other things that broke
that never should. My repair file is getting quite large...

I was miffed when the drivers side door fell off - well not quite off -
the upper hange tore itself away from the unibody and obviously the door
wouldn't close - which left the lights on and drained my battery. Had to
get a body shop to weld a plate so the upper hinge could be re-attached.

Todays interesting problem - the tailgate fell off - well again I
exagerate a bit - there is a bolt that goes through the middle of the
hinges on the tailgate - maybe it's for some sort of alignment or
adjustment or some such thing . Anyway , the bolt on one of the hinges
failed - shearing off and droping the tailgate to such an extent that
the van looked like it had been in a serious accident. Good thing my
wife was close to home at our local highschool. Someone found some rope
so my kids could hold the tailgate closed while my wife hobbled home. I
can post a picture if anyone is interested.

Can anyone tell me what thread and length for this bolt? I'm going to
have to careully drill out the sheared-off bolt, perhaps re-thread the
hole and hope that nothing was grossly twisted in this "event". The
local Chrysler says "this doesn't happen". Well, it did...

Any thoughts?

Thanks
peter

 

Why are you getting any comment at all from Chrysler on a 10-year-old
vehicle? Surely you're not taking the van to a dealer for repair?!

I suspect the problem may have more to do with your repair facility
choices than with the original design of the van.

What part of the world, specifically, do you live in? How many miles or KM
do you have on this van?

The parts department can.

This sounds like another of the "little" exaggerations you admit to
making.

 

Did you neglect to say how many times it was in the body shop?? Caravans
dont have tire wear problems, and doors falling off

 

You don't say when you bought it, but I presume it was well used. Did you
check for collision damage when you bought it? I've had a few of various
generation vans and not one had a hint of these kinds of problems. I hope
you didn't pay much for it.

 

I know this isn't helpful, but it sounds like the problem is more you than
the van. Good heavens. They made millions of those things, and nobody's
broken a door off, and you've got two? What are the odds?

As for the steering rack, it should be obvious that it isn't your van
"killing" the racks repeatedly. It's not haunted. For heaven's sake, think a
little bit.

 

a little maintenance goes along way!!!!!!!!it may even keep doors from
falling off

 

I love the "holy than thou" commentary. It's really quite funny if it
wasn't so pathetic. Give me a break - I tell you this is what happens
and your instant assumption is that I am driving into medians and curbs
on a regular basis and I'm making all this stuff up - not so - I've
babied this piece of junk since I bought it.

I have owned this car since it was new. I took it into every Chrysler
recommended service for the best part of 8 years. Believe it - I have
the receipts. Switched to a more local Chrysler dealer, as opposed to
the one I bought it from, when it opened just 2 miles away. Finally got
fed up with the local dealer when I took it in for an oil change and
$700 later discovered they forgot to do the oil change - amazing what
else they found wrong (bad front struts - have to be replaced - they're
dangerous!). The mom-and-pop repair shop around the corner is more
trustworthy than the Chrysler dealer(s) ever was.

While under the extended warranty - glad I bought it - the front
steering rack was replaced twice. I've since paid twice additionally for
this to be replaced. That was the local Chrysler dealerships solution to
front end alignments that didn't last 6 months. It's sad when you're on
first name basis with service advisors.

Which is the incompetent alignment shop - either of the two Chrysler
dealerships or the three different tire shops I have taken the van to -
surely one of them might have got it right. So "Caravans don't have
these problems" - mine does and has done since I bought it.

(Maxpower - it's a Town and Country - but that probably makes little
difference in the analysis - and the answer is once for a front end
accident and once for a rear end accident - see below)

The serpentine belt used to fall off with amazing regularity - once had
to have the van towed 180 miles to get it back to the dealer where I
bought it! I couldn't manage to wait the weekend until a dealership
opened near where it failed - plus the 180 each way trip it would have
cost me to get from my home to where the car broke down. Once after
re-installing the serpentine belt, I didn't even get then 15 miles home
before it fell off again. Dealership paid to have it towed back again -
but embarrassing- what? Had the idler pulley replaced - and replaced -
and replaced.

OK - slight exaggeration on the door falling off - but the upper drivers
side door hinge actually ripped itself off the unibdoy and I could not
shut the door - the door dropped about an inch - had to simultaneously
lift and pull to get the door to close. I had to have a body shop weld a
plate so they could re-attach it.

In answer to the question - Northern California - and not near the ocean
- not a hint of rust anywhere on the van. Still looks good for a 10 year
old van - I actually bought it 10 years ago next week.

And the adjustment bolt on the back hatch did shear off - looked at it
with a trouble light last night to see exactly what was going on - yup -
sheared off right at hinge level. Rear hatch drops about 9 inches or so
and of course can't be shut. Looks like we've been in a major accident -
but not. Thankfully, I don't think there is any other damage to the
hatch and it might be redeemable.

You can choose to believe my wife and I are collectively lousy drivers
and mis-treat our automobiles, but I have a 25 year old BMW320I that I
have put over 200K miles on without this kind of nonsense. Can't
remember when I last had a front end alignment. My 19181 Volvo 240 Turbo
went over 240K miles without this nonsense - finally gave it up when the
cost of a new turbo was more than the car was worth to me. The Bay Area
girl scouts got a buck or two for it.

yes, my wife had a minor rear-end accident where she hit someone at a
light - but that was well after two front steering rack replacements.
Can't lay too much blame on the body shop for that, I think. An yes -
someone hit the rear gate about 4 years ago - a minor tap in bumper to
bumper traffic. Full size SUVs have their bumper set too high for almost
anything but another full size SUV. A nice crease right across the
license plate holder. Enough to cause a catastrophic failure like this 4
years later? Improbable in my mind.

Joe - if there was one hint of improper driving or maintenance I might
agree with you - my wife put 100K+ miles on the BMW320I that I'm now
driving with over 200K miles on it - without this kind of problem - so
all of a sudden she's a demolition derby driver? Sorry to disagree.

The Chrysler statement about "this doesn't happen" i.e. the tailgate
failure came from the service manager at a local Chrysler dealer who
graciously ran a repair history on the van to make sure we'd fulfilled
every recall applicable to this van - we have by the way. Turns out
he's a friend of a fiend and did this as a favor. I don't talk to the
idiots at the nearest Chrysler dealership after that oil change fiasco.

(Maxpower - I did previously note that this van had EVERY Chrysler
recommended service until I had about 150,000 miles on the van and until
the local Chrysler dealer screwed me one time too many on what they
actually did for those expensive service appointments - so don't lecture
me about a little maintenance goes a long way. Do I need to go and check
the torque on every nut and bolt on this van on a regular basis? If
that's your idea or regular maintenance - that's nuts.

But I do take your point to heart - the reason I bought this van was
that Chrysler had made millions of them and I wanted to get something
very reliable reliable as my wife is a home healthcare nurse who puts a
lot of miles on an automobile - and that's why I did every Chrysler
recommended service until about 2 years ago... so much for that dilligence)

So, my thoughtful readers - believe what you wish (and I haven't talked
about a transmission replacement - the passenger side electric window
that doesn't go up and down any more, or the rear wiper that doesn't, or
the radio that doesn't display the time and station any more) but I'm
going to get this fixed as best I can and donate it to charity - I
wouldn't want to take money from some unsuspecting dupe and actually
personally sell it ( road rage anyone?) to someone who might know where
I live.

Northern California is a very benign environment for an automobile. But
a lemon is a lemon where ever it might be.

A new BMW X5 or Mercedes ML320 is starting to sound really good...well,
maybe not the Mercedes - that's Chrysler's parent isn't it?

Peter

 

My wife had a 94 caravan that her door was falling down on the drivers
side, she was backing up with the door open and hit my truck, it sprung
the hindge that i never had fixed, over time the door support started
cracking and the door was coming off, not chryslers problem, but my own, I
had seen a bolt shear off the lift gate before, only because the owner
would let the door slam open, in turn springing the hindges, now you state
you were rear ended??? you may have also sprung the hindge, and over time
sheared the bolt, , and the front end accident, who is to say it was
assembled properly, im just saying that The caravan does not have those
problems, and yes, over time metal does rust, especially 10 yr old metal
that isnt treated such as rotors. keep in mind, this is a 10 yr old
vehicle

 

forgot to say..... i am also damnnickname on my PC at work

 

10 years old! Wow! I'm currently driving a 16 year old Porsche every
day, probably soon to be replaced with my mom's 18 year old VW. Prior
to that I had a 20 year old VW that served me well for upwards of 60K
miles - and it had about 180K on it when I got it. I don't make excuses
like "it's an old car" when something (rarely) breaks. Probably would
still have the first VW today if I'd gotten more motivated to fix it up
and fixed a few minor issues with it like the crappy paint and
nonfunctional A/C instead of letting it sit for a year and a half :/

I do, however, sadly say things like "it's a Porsche" when I belly up to
the parts counter, however, but you expect that... But my point was, if
you consider a car "old" and liable to break after 10 years, that's not
a ringing endorsement of your chosen vehicle. FWIW my first car that I
drove (I have to qualify that, the first car I actually owned was a
street rod project that I ended up selling when I didn't get it
completed by the time I graduated from college and had to go find a Real
Job) was a '67 Dart with over 200K miles on it... and other than some
issues caused by a badly executed engine swap (not by me) I *still*
didn't have to make the "old car" excuses for it - and this was in '96
or thereabouts. My girlfriend at the same time owned a '69 Valiant that
was in much better shape; she drove it daily for 4 or 5 years before
selling it for a new Passat with not much more than routine maintenance
and a suspension rebuild that Yours Truly did for her in front of her
apartment.

The whole concept that a 10 year old vehicle is liable to have strange,
unusual failures is one that makes me shake my head and think that
perhaps you need to expect more from your vehicles. Maybe the OP *did*
do some things to promote these failures, maybe he didn't, I'm not
judging. But the whole concept that they are somehow acceptable is silly.

nate

 

You know, its is ashame, i will never dispute that the foriegn cars are
built 100% better then the domestic vehicles, and that goes for quality
also, if i took 100 Chrysler cars and 100 foriegn cars and inspected them
brand new, i would problems with the domestic ones and maybe not one with
the the foriegn, and it has been like that as far as i can remember

 

Too bad you didn't go the Lemon Law approach when you 1st bought it and had the
vehicle replaced with another one. It would have been a good change that
another one would have been fine. I know dozen's of people with Caravan's
giving excellent service. I've owned two (a 1987 1st year Grand and my current
1997 Grand). The '87 we sold to friends in 1997 and they ran it another 5
years...the only problem they eventually had was with the smoking mitsushitty
3.0 V6 engine.

 

did you have any doors fall off James?

 

What are you taking? And can I get some of it? Delusions like this
would really melt away the old stress!


Matt

 

Nate

a breath of fresh air - I expect a lot when I pay a lot - over $30K for
that Town and Country and in an environment like the Bay Area, where 50
year old cars aren't uncommon, saying that I shouldn't expect a well
maintained car to last more than 10 years or 180K miles is a crock.


Thanks
Peter

 

James

looked into that, but never quite qualified, and things always seemed to
go wrong just outside of Chrysler warranty on repairs.

Yes, I've got friends who have had good luck with the Caravan/
Voyager/Town and Country - I just happened to hit an unlucky one.

Thanks
Peter

 

You still miss the point - you're making a sweeping generalization when
you say these vans don't have such problems - well, mine does and no
amount of denial makes that change.

Not sure how to slam the lift gate open - it has two dampers in perfect
working order that allows the gate to lift slowly to it's fill open
position.

Not a lot of rust here in the Bay area - away from the salty night air -
and not a sign of any corrosion around that lift gate bolt.

Peter

 

Its been like that forever with the domestic vehicles, Now the Big Three are
cutting back on paying the technicians to diagnois, vehicles, they dont pay
the techs to test drive the cars, diagnois them, and even verifying the fix,
alot of the Techs that have been with dealer are leaving. I have seen more
parts get thrown at vehicles because of this, Give it a few more yrs and
watch what happens. It will also funnel down to the independents, Chrysler
has been cutting the labor time drastically in there warranty books, Chilton
and Motor manual and who ever else base there time off the warranty time in
the warranty books, The independents will start to see this as they come
into the shop if they dont already see it

 

the current post about the Durango whelles falling off makes my point -
DC has made millions of these as well - and my neighbor loves hers - but
sometimes the wheels fall off...'nuff said!

Peter

 

What does that have to do with how the cars are built? The claim was
that foreign cars are built 100% better and don't have any problems when
new. There is tons of data from J.D. Power and other sources that shows
how wrong that claim is.


Matt