GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market

Fast growing? Seems like GM/Ford have already saturated the SUV
market, and there's already too many players in the AWD passenger car
market. Audi and Subaru traditionally had a lock on this market (after
AMC/Eagle left, but AMC never had decent marketing. I wonder what
would have happened if the Eagle had a rally program like Audi or
Subaru? Would have been fun to watch... but I digress) but now
everyone and their brother is offering at least one AWD sedan or wagon.

GM and Ford both need to come up with a product that is not just "as
good as" but markedly BETTER than the existing products in a given
class and price point if they want to get any market penetration.
There's too many people out there that have a negative impression of
GM/Ford and their products, "all things being equal" they will choose
another brand based on past experience or reputation.

nate

 

Duh what Jap maker offers an AWD mid size sedan?


mike

 

Maybe so. I may be wrong but I perceive that as market segment of very
finicky customers. It may be one of those markets where they spend a
$billion on a new product, and the market just says it's mediocre.
Mediocrity is the heart of what's driving them into bankruptcy.

In fact I think we're already there with the "Edge". It's an all-out
development effort, but reviews in the press are mixed. It looks good, but
it weighs 5000 lb, and it only seats 5. There's nothing really great about
the performance or the gas mileage. Just middle-of-the-road all the way.
It looks a lot better than a Pacifica, but maybe not so good as the Murano,
depending on your taste.

How about the Compass? It's cheaper, but awfully ugly. The Compass is going
to be the new Aztek, I'm afraid. Recent Autoweek test had all kinds of
breakdowns. It's bad when you develop products that are ugly right out of
the box.

I guess this new Buick Enclave thing is the GM's big all-out crossover
effort. Their current crossovers are kind of forgettable to me. I know
they had the Ranier/Aztek for a while. Now they have that Pontiac Torrent
instead and whatever it is at other divisions. These were all okay
(ignoring the Aztek's styling). I guess you could say mediocre.

 

I guess that's Subaru, right? Is that what you mean?

 

GM and Ford both need to come up with a product that is not just "as

You said it, man. Well put.

 

If I felt as you do about any of the vehicles you mentioned, I would not
buy one of those, if I were you.

mike

 

And in the US they sell how many in a year?


mike

 

That is not what is proven in the annual sales figures.. Both GM and Ford
sell far more vehicles in the US than any import brand.


mike

 

For now. Import market share is increasing and domestic market share
is decreasing, and if this trend is not reversed it will be very bad
news indeed for the US automotive industry and you won't be able to
make that statement anymore. I stand by my statement and hope that GM
and Ford's product planners agree with me, for their sake.

nate

 

GM does. Projections are that Toyota will outsell Ford in the US next
year (and GM worldwide).

 

It was not to long ago those 'in the know' were predicting Ford would 'soon
outsell GM in the US,' as well

(I deleted your address line. No to smart of to put all of that information
out in a NG.)


mike

 

This post brought to you by Mike's new book" Condescension: how to make
friends and influence people by coming off like a know-it-all."

I think Joe knows what he's doing. Nothing available there that's not
available elsewhere, and besides he's been posting here for *years*.

 

I seem to remember those as maybe pie-in-the-sky projections for years
down the line. I'm talking about projections for *next* *year*.

Any specific reason not to, or just sort of a general paranoia?

 

Are you aware that Mike Hunt, Mike Hunter and his other dirty-minded
riffs on "My ****" is a classic Usenet Troll? Go look at his body of
past postings again.

It's rampant paranoia with delusions of grandeur - Dr. Sidney
Friedman could make a mint psychoanalyzing Mikey.

He once tried censuring me for putting "personal information" in my
..sig file too - but it was the business address and phone. If someone
out there needs to hire an electrician in my case, or a computer
science professor in your case, it makes sense you want to give them a
way to contact you.

Mike has made all sorts of grandiose claims over the years, but he's
been very careful to not let any hint of his real identity slip out...

Because then we'd be able to prove all those claims he's made over
the years are totally false - he claims to own (present tense) several
large multiple brand new-car dealerships, several homes in tony
neighborhoods up and down the east coast including his "winter home"
in Key West, FL, many exotic and unusual cars, etc. I gave up trying
to keep track of all the lies long ago.

He's on a freaking PennTeleData dial-up account from somewhere in
rural Pennsylvania. AFAICT "A legend in his own mind."

--<< Bruce >>--

 

Ah. Didn't even catch the pun.

 

When you begin to get dozens of calls at 5 PM from telemarketers and all of
the paper in your FAX machine is printed out with spam at 2 AM you may feel
differently, unless of course it is not YOUR paper


mike

 

So... so it's sort of a lack of understanding of the differences
between email spam and telemarketing. Nothing to worry about.

 

What differences?

 

I guess he never had his FAX spammed.


mike

 

The economics are completely different. Sending email spam,
especially using botnets, is essentially free. Last I saw, estimates
were that the response rate on email spam was down around one in
100,000 -- but the cost of sending the message is so low they're still
making a profit. At those rates, harvesting my email address from
usenet is worth it to them; unfortunately, my email address was in so
many different places long before there was spam that ceasing to use
it on usenet wouldn't make any difference at this point. I don't use
my personal email address on usenet!

A telemarketing call or fax spam costs infinitely more -- up in the
pennies range. For random telemarketers to call my office to make
pitches on the basis of harvesting the phone number from usenet would
be insane; likewise to send spam to the department's fax machine on
that basis.