Genuine Shop Manuals Standard Equipment on All Cars

You don't know much about producing a product do you? If a cd costs $1.50
then how are you going to pay the salary for the people who write the text
for the manual, the editors who check them for errors, the project managers
who make sure they get done on time when the vehicle is released? Do you
think all cars are made by slaves in China so the shop manuals can be too?

 

It now costs the big three exactly a buck fifty to supply a genuine shop
manual for each and every car and truck they sell.

That's what two CD-ROMs would cost them. One CD for shop procedures. One
CD for parts catalogue. Those CD-ROMs should be sandwiched in the owner's
manual.

Do-it-yourselfers need them and so do old ladies. Why old ladies? Simple.
When she breaks down someplace out of town, those discs will come in handy
for the independent repair shop and his NAPA supplier.

Never mind the paper edition. That's for dealerships and enthusiasts with
money burning holes in their pockets.

I'm waiting now for the complaint even $1.50 is a lot on a $30,000 car.
Okay! Then we need a quick and dirty FEDERAL LAW MANDATING CD-ROM manuals
in the interests of public safety. Improperly repaired cars are dangerous
to your health and painful to your pocketbook as well. Let them charge
$30,001.50 after the passage of this badly needed law. Too many laws on
the books you say? Of course. At least 10000 of them, so what's one more?
As bad as laws sometimes are, they are needed to keep the fat cats of
Detroit on good behavior.

If the Government can take it on to legislate the side wall markings on
bicycle tires, they surely can mandate two simple CD-ROMs for every car.
And you'll thank me for for it a thousand times over.

 

I'm with you on this one. Unfortunately neither Reps nor Dems will
be.....it's ironic that most aircraft service documentation is in the
public domain whereas most auto docs are not.

 

Hey Nomen, try alldatapro.com

Denny

 

Reality: Little old ladies throw their owner's manauls away.

While you or I might find such a thing useful, the fact is that
most owners see the manual as a useless nuisance that takes up
valuable room in the golve box. Check out a used car lot
sometime and see how many original manuals you find in the
vehicles. I think you'll find them pretty scarce. You'd have
to hide the manual from the owner in order for it to be safe.

Here's my idea: Since most vehicles seem to be going toward
onboard computers anyway, why not install a LAN port in the
dashboard with a web server applet and burn the manual files
into flash memory? Each vehicle would be furnished with the
latest information as it comes down the assembly line, and
you could even do automatic updates via XM radio satellite
feed. Anyone with a network enabled computer could view the
files, print out pages if needed, maintain service logs, etc.

 

That is correct - they have all this info on file anyway so they could dish
them out as freely as AOL do with theirs. One problem we have in the UK
though is that Ford dealers go out of their way not to tell you such
information as our American 'buddies' tend to sue them every time they do
something stupid and damage their car or themselves. It would seem that it
is 'reckless' to allow anyone who is not a trained mechanic access to such
information so its just easier to say no.

 

Are you saying that Ford won't release repair info to their UK customers,
and Ford's reason for this is somehow related to the behavior of Ford's
customers in the USA?

I'm not following you at all. I'm in the US and I can purchase the
genuine Ford factory workshop manuals and/or CDs (from Helm, Inc.) without
any restrictions (other than the cost).

 

You are ignoring an important factor. The $1.50 number you are giving
is the **recurring** cost (how much $$ it takes to procure the blank
disc and burn and pacakge the finished product or contract someone to do
same on a mass scale). You have failed to factor in the non-recurring
cost of creating the information and formating that goes into the manual
(the up-front development cost that comes right off the corporate bottom
line before the recurring cost of the first unit is recovered).

Pass a law that the manual has to be supplied with each vehicle, and the
development cost of the manual amortized over each vehicle will be a lot
more than $1.50 - and a lot less than the $100 that you pay for a
typical FSM now on an individual basis. But at least now, that moderate
per-unit cost is not being forced on those who have no desire or use for
it. It is being borne by those who both want it and are getting value
for what they are paying. Mandate it with every car, and the person who
can't even spell FSM will be forced to pay for something that is useless
to them.

IOW, pass that law, and the person for whom the manual is a useless item
is subsidizing the one who will really use and benefit from it. As it
is now, the total cost is carried by those who are getting something of
value that they, by their freedom of will, are willing to pay for.

One other aspect: The information that the manufacturer puts in the
manual is intellectual property. They can charge big bucks for it or
give it away. The customer has the right to buy the competitor's
product instead if they choose to punish the manufacturer who they think
is gouging them. IOW, if one manufaturer wants $600 or $700 for an FSM,
which some in fact do, and another wants only $92, I can make that a
zero, small, big, or sole factor in my decision on whose product to
purchase. It's called a free-market system.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

But how would you figure out how to repair the defective flash memory?

Show me a car over four years old without faulty computer systems....

 

I've got two of them, a 1996 Grand Voyager and a 1994 Chevy K1500. When
do you want to see them?


Matt

 

Well said Bill. This is a great example of why free market should
prevail. I do like the idea of manuals being included with the
vehicles, I just think making it a law is a bad idea.

 

How about offering a download of the shop manual in PDF format if you
have the VIN?

Offer it free to vehicles under warranty.
Charge $2 for vehicles outside of warranty.

Ray

 

I know here in the US there's a law that says that they can't not sell the
service manuals to people wanting to buy them. I'm not sure about overseas
though.

What I think he's trying to say though is over here people'll hurt
themselves because of themselves working on the car then sue the
manufacturer so they just don't sell them.

 

I suggested exactly this about a year ago. But why stop at the
manual, get rid of the OBD-II port and just go to an ethernet
port. It's a given that the ethernet controllers today are far
cheaper than the OBD-II port controllers. And if you put a
webserver on it, no need for an external scan tool either.

Ted

 

So why not include a manual in your 'bargaining' when you purchase a new
vechicle. Haggle for your best price, then tell the salesman, "oh, throw in a
manual too, then I'll buy it".
JR

 

I'll happily email you a pic of my seven-year-old Intrepid, if you like.

--Geoff

 

It's funny how this myth lingers on.

 

Certainly in the UK parts staff are instructed not to 'advise' on fitting
etc. I'm sure that Ford would not put the blame on the American buyers.
Rather, they would quote global instances of damage claims. We all know
where the 'sue people' have their reservation though - don't we ?

 

mike gray totally exxagerated:

How about 8 Ford EECIV cars over the last ten years...ALL atleast 8 years
without a failure.

Meaning..I've never had one ECM fail. Plus I know of one case where I saw
first hand a repair shop replace a good one so he could charge for it.

 

1) My 1971 Volvo 164's original computer is not faulty.
2) My 1989 Dodge pickup's original computer is not faulty.
3) My 1992 Dodge Spirit's original computer is not faulty.
4) My relative's 2000 Subaru's original computer is not faulty.
5) My relative's 1991 Plymouth Acclaim's original computer is not faulty.
6) My relative's 1991 Nissan Maxima's original computer is not faulty.
7) My relative's 1992 Toyota Camry's original computer is not faulty.
8) My 1985 Volvo 245's original computer wasn't faulty when sold in '03.

Shall we go on, or have I made my point?