Fuel in the oil.

This one has me stumped.
1. Originally a Chrysler dealer told me my engine was junk and refused
to change out the coolant. I discussed this on this newsgroup early in
this year. The car failed a pressure check. I felt really bad getting
dissed by the dealer. And what to do? Tell them their mechanic made a
big boo-boo?
2. So I thought, double-check this.
3. Another mechanic doing an oil change did not see any coolant in the
oil.
4. But last time, possibly a touch of coolant or so someone thought.
5. I am not seeing any of that chocolate color that happens when
coolant gets into the oil. The oil is mighty transparent but that could
be because I am changing it every 2000 to 3000 mile since I am worried
about coolant destroying the engine if it is in the oil.

Lifesaver: remembered this group discussing Blackstone Labs.

So sent another sample to them.

They told me if not for some slight fuel in the oil, my engine would
have a perfect report.

Not bad, 210,000 miles on a Mitsubishi 3.0 liter, V-6, Voyager, 1994.

Actually it's amazing. The car does not smoke. But it idles a tad rough
and is losing a bit on hills. So is this due to fuel in the oil? Could
be anything but it used to idle so smooth, even at 195,000 miles.

They said 1% fuel in the oil but not a problem until 2%.

What does this mean?

So why losing coolant. Obviously it is coming out of the water pump,
that much I can discern now.

Put in some GM coolant sealing tablets. Can't do much damage to
anything, outside the heater core, I am told. Thought briefly about
Bars Leak and its aluminum suspension but then, nope. They don't even
have an 800 number and I have read that stuff can really clog.

So change the water pump, means, change the timing belt, okay, maybe
time for that maintenance.

But the head gasket. Do that too?

What do you all think?

Thanks for the great clue about Blackstone Labs. $20, and the report
within a couple of days. They are great. Took out a lot of guesswork.

The car failed the pressure check, but that could be the water pump
alone doing that?

All thoughts appreciated. I'm delighted, at least for tonight. Best
news I have had on this van for a while. I like it. Even like it enough
to think of getting another engine for it. But that's a whole can or
whatever. A tested junk engine might not be better than what I have
now. And a good engine is going to be, well, more than doing the head
gasket for sure. Sorry to ramble but a trying to figure out what's up.

 

It means the rings are worn and the engine has some blow-by. Compression
leaks past the piston rings and leaves some fuel in the oil. Don't put
any stopleak in the cooling system.

 

Uh oh, already put in some GM coolant sealing tablets. What's going to
happen now that's bad? Since it's leaking a gallon or two every couple
weeks or so, if that's bad I added the tablets, then with luck, they'll
wash out? Or did you mean Bar'sLeak stop leak stuff only? That did look
nasty.

Thanks for your explanation. Blow-by eh? That's been a problem with all
my engines. Someone has to nurse the babies along and keep them out of
the graveyard.

Thanks for the advice.

 

You mean the "dog treats" originally sold by Cadillac dealers for us
in the first aluminum V8s? They make a mess out of the cooling
system, but will prevent electrolysis. So will using distilled water,
which is cheaper and cleaner.

If you're losing a gallon or two a WEEK, you have serious problems.
Time to tear that thing down or swap out for a rebuild..

 

No stop leak will repair a leaking waterpump. Bar'sLeak is permenant
nasty. The GM pills will not cause a problem. They are made of
ground-up nut shells... Almond I think? One pill is plenty for your
size cooling system. Don't worry they will wash out. I've never heard
about them having a neutralizing effect... I suspect that is very
likely true.

 

all engines get some fuel dilution in the oil with time.

to check head gasket seal, you need to do a cylinder leakdown test and
compression test

cylinder to top dead center- put shop line pressure (175 psi) into the
cylinder with a threaded adapter that matches spark plug threads. You
will hear the cylinder "leak down"- it's normal for it to leakdown into
the crankcase- but if it bubbles into the radiator, you have a bad head
gasket, or cracked casting

you need to test every cylinder that way

also a cranking compression test

if leakdown readings are over 5%, it's time for a new motor- the engine
will still run, but not efficiently

with 210,000 on it now, what more do you want ? The Jap plasma type
ring sets give up at 220,000- and start using oil pretty badly at that
point. You'll see smoke going down a steep hill on deceleration, or
at WOT (wide open throttle)

basically at that point in mileage, you should be 1) looking for a new
car 2) getting an engine overhaul, and preferably #1, because there is
a multitude of newer cars out there now for dirt cheap.

 

Fuel dilution in the oil is usually a sign that the engine is used for
short-trip driving and the oil never gets hot enough to force the fuel
to evaporate back out and get purged by the PCV system. It *can* be a
sign of running too rich- which can result from a leaky fuel injector,
bad sensor (02, MAP, throttle-position, coolant temp- any number of
them), or even a bad fuel pressure regulator.

No "sealer" will help a water pump, because that's a rotating seal. The
GM pills wont do any permanent harm, but flush them out. They do reduce
the effectiveness of the cooling system.

DEFINITELY. You have a huge coolant leak there.

You already have confirmation that the head gasket isn't leaking coolant
into the oil. Unless you can SEE coolant leaking to the exterior of the
engine, why on earth would you change a head gasket?????

 

Desperation? Leaking brain gasket? Changing the head gasket on a
non-leaking van with 210,000 miles on is neither rational nor logical.
Sometimes my fingers keep on typing while my brain has gone into
reverse.

 

Been there done THAT

But there is a possibility that a head gasket might leak coolant out the
side and NOT into the oil. When you're in there doing the water pump,
look everything over real good and see if there are any other signs of
leakage.

 

Just HAS been there, and done that, as my earlier post about my 318
sucking air proved. However, at 85K it was good to get the top end
off the engine, clean up deposits on the valve stems, inspect and
clean the lifters bodies pressure wash the cooling jackets and
decarbonize the chambers and piston crowns. Only regret there is that
no one supplies a real 318 (3.93" bore) head gasket anymore, even DC,
and you have to settle for a 340/360, which may rob a little
compression. Now, however, it runs better than when new and gets
superb fuel economy for a big RWD car along with very low emissions.
The 5 lb loss in compression can easily be traced to removing the
carbon, so maybe the head gasket isn't all that bad a thing.

The real culprit? A bad lip seal on a cheap rebuilt water pump put on
by a garage during a trip to Las Vegas. Lesson: ALWAYS ask where a
guy gets his parts. If they won't say or say Poop Boys or AutoBone,
supply your own.

 

i wonder why the dealer or mechanics did not suggest this.
the dealer did just an ordinary pressure test.
and that mechanic probably mistook the fuel in the oil for coolant in
the oil. the mechanic also missed that the leak was in the water pump
and not from the head gasket. i had asked for a good mechanic, an older
guy there with gray hair who really knows his stuff about cars. they
gave me a very young hotshot who apparently did not want to bother with
an old car. I FEEL DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. should i picket the agency or
call up Chrysler to complain and a lack of competence? or just get in
line

i'm going by mpg as a rough indicator. the car can do around 25 mpg at
60-65 mph. not too bad. i figure if and when the mileage drop to 20 mpg
then the engine is almost completely shot.

you really know how to hurt a guy.
i have 10,000 miles left until armageddon.
is that you are telling me?

what is dirt cheap? could you give a price range?
dirt cheap to me is around $1000 but i think you mean $3000 or $4000.

 

I was told the GM tablets are ginger root. Not sure if this is true or not.
I know GMN recommends two tablets be crushed and added to their radiators
when doing a flush.

Bob

 

You are loosing power on hills because of loss of compression from worn
rings. This is normal for your mileage and also increases fuel dilution
in the oil. Your oil annalysis proves that your head gaskets are not
leaking. You should replace the waterpump and refill 50/50 anti-freeze
and water. If you continue changing oil and filter at the same
intervals, you will not have any problems with fuel dilution. The
number of tablets depends on the ammount of coolant in the system.
During training presented by a GMC factory engineer he explained that
two pills are more than enough for a 1 Ton pick-up with heavy-duty
cooling system.

 

Uh oh, I put in 4 tablets for a smallish 3 liter. The Cadillac dealer
said they use 6 tablets for their hulking 4.9 liter but that thing is a
sieve. Did the engineer say 2 tablets for a leaking or non-leaking 1
ton pickup?

I put in 3 tablets some months ago. It seemed to hold for about 3 weeks
and then leaked again. I guess if it does not leak out a lot, then I'll
get the coolant flushed.

Also, 2 tablets? Is that for the regular oil change as a maintenance
item as opposed to actually trying to stop a leak? They come in a 5
blister pack for around $3.70. The best deal, ?, at the Cadillac
dealer.

Felt a bit awkward, what kind of car do you have the parts guy asked
me?
"Plymouth Voyager van."
Oh well, at least Cadillac still exists. Cadillac-lac-lac-lac as the
song goes.

 

The dealer didn't tell you about the leakdown test, because they don't
know any better.

What I'm saying is, at 210,000 miles, your car is already beyond it's
useful life- without a lot of M-R work and expense
(maintenance/repair). An engine doesn't run forever, it wears
constantly as it runs. At 10,000 miles it already has some wear on it,
that's not there at zero miles, and the wear cycle continues.

Very soon that car is going to start using a LOT of oil, like a quart
every week or two. And it's not worth rebuilding. You could buy a
used 2002 model with under 100,000 miles from a private owner, in the
$3500-4000 range, the market is flooded with trade ins. May sell them
privately to get more than the dealer offers on the trade.

If you are looking at $1000 cars, you'd better be a mechanically
inclined to start with- as well as equipped with tools. Anything in
that price range will need to be gone through completely to make it
reliable.

 

thanks for the good advice.

 

No, man! If you mean Billy Joel's song ("Scenes from an Italian
Restaurant" IIRC), it's "Cadillac-ack-ack-ack-ack.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Seargeant O'Leary is walking the beat.
At night, he becomes a bartender.
He works at Mr. Cacciatorre's down on Sullivant Street,
Across from the medical center,
And he's trading in his Chevy for a Cadillac, lac, lac, lac;
You oughtta know by now,
If he can't drive with a broken back,
At least he can polish the fenders.
And it seems such a waste of time,
If that's what it's all about...
Momma, if that's moving up, than I'm moving out.

For some reason, the name of the song was changed to Movin' Out. This
is from the 1977 alblum, The Stranger. And who isn't?

Thanks for the memories, man.

And note, for the gloating goating record, exactly, precisely, only 3
lac's

 

No no no. It ain't 'lac' - it's 'ac' or 'ack'. The same hook was used
in the first verse "Working too hard can give you a heart attack -ack
-ack -ack -ack -ack". Definitely 5 'ac's. I just listened to it, and
all the lyric sites agree.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Look, are you trying to make me crazy?

You said above, and I quote, sorry to be so exact:

I was posting and then you responded about my Cadillac, lac, lac, lac.
A heart attack is not a Cadillac, not hardly, although you did find an
ack ack ack ack to red herring your mistake on my lac lac lac. Bad boy.
No dinner for you.

Good try, not bad. Do you do this about car questions too? You could
drive a man to motor oil.

I await your next obfuscation with, with with;